[Mk2] [Turbo] Stock Rev2 3SGTE: 487.3bhp & 364.6lbft, 2.2 bar & 8100RPM

[Turbonoz]

Not quite 500bhp which was the aim, but a more than reasonable result. Probably the highest powered stock 3SGTE in the world right now. If you know of higher, let me know so I can go for more. It was a busy day on the dyno, so left it nice and safe with plenty in reserve with regards to fueling (~11.5:1) and timing. How long the stock ringlands last at this power is the interesting thing now. Will the cylinder temps kill them? Only issue was with the clutch, which is an unknown make & torque rating. Was slipping slightly which dropped the torque on a couple of runs. Wasn't too bad once it had been left to cool for a while.

Went from 1.4 bar and 330bhp mapped at Santa Pod to 2.2 bar and 487bhp. As per usual with the 3SGTE, fueling is the key, I picked up a whopping 30bhp just by leaning it out to 11.5:1 AFR top end. If I was to take it to 12.2:1, it would probably surpass 500bhp.

I have always said that people vastly underestimate the 3SGTE in the UK (exactly the same as the VG30DETT in the 300zx). This is the highest specific output of a car I have ever attained, having just beat the 383bhp@hubs from a stock 1809cc CA18DET I mapped years ago. Hopefully, this shows what can be achieved with bolt-ons and a proper map. This is not a one-off dyno queen result, it is mapped with reliability in mind as it is my only drag car for the upcoming season. It has been running up to 1.5 bar & 12.3s quarter miles ALL last season as well. Now all it has to do is get the numbers up the strip at 2.2 bar without spitting it's dummy (conrod) out.

Spec:
Bone stock high-mileage Rev2 3SGTE, except for a Rev3 MHG (I presume). Stock inlet, cams, bottom end, head. Stocker than a very stock thing.
Stock gear box
Unknown clutch, not really up to the job
GReddy T78 @ 2.2 bar (32.34psi)
Link G3 ECU mapped by me aka Turbonoz
8300 rpm limit, run to 8100rpm on STOCK rod bolts & valvetrain
Wolfkatz top feed fuel rail & Delphi 900cc injectors, Sard FPR @ 3bar
Cheap 255lph fuel pump
Huge BMIC

My camera ran out having been videotaping the customer's cars, so will upload vids for more proof once I rip them from my friend's phone. Apologies for the blurry pics, will get a printout tomorrow and take a high-res picture. I have enhanced the sharpness on a couple of the pics, just in case anyone thinks I'm pulling a 'Xxxx'

440bhp (383rwhp) run at 1.9 bar with rich fueling and conservative timing:



Final run for the night. 487.3bhp (423.6rwhp) & 364.6lb·ft (331.5lb·ft @ wheels) at 2.2 bar with safe fueling and safe timing:



My MR2 & a customer's 300zx with 430bhp & 440lbft. An absolute pleasure to drive.
[/u]

[jimGTS]

What dyno is that?

You will find it hard to prove its the highest powered stock car unless on a well known independent dyno, (dyno dynamics for example).
And a video wouldn't go a miss .

Either way, ignoring numbers, boost is mental.
I assume there's a huge nitros shot involved here? Or at least race fuel? folk are going to have a hard time believing you can run over 2bar on stock internals for more than 5 minutes, let alone make near 500hp on stock cams.

Great info and results, but I do await some independent rolling road results and look forward to some drag results too.

[Turbonoz]

What dyno is that?

You will find it hard to prove its the highest powered stock car unless on a well known independent dyno, (dyno dynamics for example).
And a video wouldn't go a miss .

Either way, ignoring numbers, boost is mental.
I assume there's a huge nitros shot involved here? Or at least race fuel? folk are going to have a hard time believing you can run over 2bar on stock internals for more than 5 minutes, let alone make near 500hp on stock cams.

Great info and results, but I do await some independent rolling road results and look forward to some drag results too.

It's a dynocom dyno. I use it for all my mapping.

For reference, my 1600kg 300ZX ran a 13.1s@110mph on a map created at Santa Pod. This same map ran 382bhp on this dyno. Do some research into terminal speeds & power if you wish, the dyno is pretty damn spot-on else I would use somewhere else

No nitrous and no race fuel, have you seen the cost of that stuff? No WI either. Just air & fuel. The numbers are what they are, and I have been doing this for years To be fair, when I posted about running 382bhp@hubs on a stock 1809cc CA18DET back in Jan 2008, people believed that because there were lots of witnesses. I had a few witnesses on this occasion, but they aren't on here. Would you agree that at 1.4-1.5 bar and 330-350bhp would get me a 12.39@112mph? Which of these figures do you think are incorrect and why?

I map cars mate, it wouldn't pay me to fudge results now, would it?

Have a look on facebook, vids should be on there at some point when I get them off my mate's phone (my camera ran out of space videotaping a customer's 300zx). It'll be on the IMOC page and my own page.

Seriously, what kind of power do you think 2.2 bar on a T78 is going to make? 400bhp? The interesting thing isn't the figures. It's the fact I'm not picking bits of piston out of my back

[Turbonoz]

P.S.

For forthcoming drag times see the IMOC TOTB 2013 thread here:
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=167982

As and when Santa Pod or Shakespeare are open, of course.

Why not stick your name down for TOTB dude?

[gavinda]

Great result for a rev2 engine.

[synXero]

Insane.

[ashley]

That's awesome man- well done!!



2.5 bar next??


Seriously impressive!

[Ryan S]

i think the problem is, nobody has ACTUALLY EVER pushed the stock internals to their limit, not with a decent map anyway, be interesting to see how long it all holds together, i'm not saying it won't, i've always thought the Mr2 should be better than around 350 on stock pistons,rods,crank. some of audi boys are getting 400bhp from 1.8 litres!!!

good thread

[alanmr2turbo]

i always though that 1.4bar can knacker in standard pistons, let alone 2.2bar

[SonicSW20]

i think the problem is, nobody has ACTUALLY EVER pushed the stock internals to their limit, not with a decent map anyway, be interesting to see how long it all holds together, i'm not saying it won't, i've always thought the Mr2 should be better than around 350 on stock pistons,rods,crank. some of audi boys are getting 400bhp from 1.8 litres!!!

good thread

They are, but they are at a bit of an advantage, as some revisions of the VW 1.8T came with forged internals.

[uglee]

Lots of questions;

I thought the advantage with forged pistons is they can take more of a battering when knock happens? Therefore a bigger margin of error for a bad map?

Keep the mapping safe and the engine knock free and no need for forged pistons?

I'd have thought the increase in revs is more of a danger to engines than high boost?

[Turbonoz]

Thanks for all the positive comments. Anyone is more than welcome to pop along and have a look at the car

Even 1 bar with a bad map or set up can destroy ringlands. Bear in mind that I'm running a turbo that is only just small enough not to surge on spool and intake temps are just 47°C at 2.2 bar. Although it may appear to be a "pikey" set up, everything is specified in order to provide the best chance for the engine not to go bang, and it's been abused on the drag strip with 6k launches and up to 1.5 bar all last season. I've just restricted spending to a minimum to show what can be done. After this, it is simply all about the mapping. And at this level a bit of luck of course.

Something will let go sooner or later. Saying that, my 1.8 S13 engine stayed together in one piece at a similar power level. I stripped the car before I had to use either the freshly-built stock engine or the forged lump waiting in the wings.

JDM metal

[Turbonoz]

Lots of questions;

I thought the advantage with forged pistons is they can take more of a battering when knock happens? Therefore a bigger margin of error for a bad map?

Keep the mapping safe and the engine knock free and no need for forged pistons?

I'd have thought the increase in revs is more of a danger to engines than high boost?

Exactly

Up to a point where cylinder pressure simply get too high for the cast items, as long as the mapping, IATs & fuel supply are sufficient, forged pistons are not required at all.

I was surprised it held together running to 8200+ RPM. Very surprised.

[Ryan S]

you should take a note of the mileage

[synXero]

I'd love to see what 2.5bar boost pressure felt like in the passenger seat

[Turbonoz]

you should take a note of the mileage

Why? I can tell you how many miles it's going to do next year. About 20.

It's a drag car mate. That is its purpose. I have a 12s Pulsar & a 400+bhp 300zx if I need to pop to the shops

You don't actually think I would have fitted a T78 to a bone-stock non-stroked 3SGTE to have as a road car do you? It doesn't make positive boost until 4500rpm, it'd be the slowest point-to-point car around. Funny stuff dude, you do make me smile

[Ryan S]

you should take a note of the mileage

Why? I can tell you how many miles it's going to do next year. About 20.

It's a drag car mate. That is its purpose. I have a 12s Pulsar & a 400+bhp 300zx if I need to pop to the shops

You don't actually think I would have fitted a T78 to a bone-stock non-stroked 3SGTE to have as a road car do you? It doesn't make positive boost until 4500rpm, it'd be the slowest point-to-point car around. Funny stuff dude, you do make me smile

um...to see how long it actually DOES last??? and to be fair, i don't really think ANYONE would fit a T78 to a bone stock car.

[Ryan S]

or you could use a stopwatch if you'd prefer?? or an hour meter like a tractor engine. although...i doubt you'll see an hour.

[Turbonoz]

you should take a note of the mileage

Why? I can tell you how many miles it's going to do next year. About 20.

It's a drag car mate. That is its purpose. I have a 12s Pulsar & a 400+bhp 300zx if I need to pop to the shops

You don't actually think I would have fitted a T78 to a bone-stock non-stroked 3SGTE to have as a road car do you? It doesn't make positive boost until 4500rpm, it'd be the slowest point-to-point car around. Funny stuff dude, you do make me smile

um...to see how long it actually DOES last??? and to be fair, i don't really think ANYONE would fit a T78 to a bone stock car.

Mate, please. I don't really know what to say to your posts without sounding undiplomatic. If you genuinely think that a dedicated drag car needs to have its mileage monitored, then I'll just leave you with that mate and we shall agree to disagree.

It doesn't matter how long it lasts in mileage, its job is to run very quick quarter miles. Do you not understand? I have other cars to drive around in for different purposes. If it lasts a season running mid 11s at 2.2 bar, then I'll let you do the maths. It is only driven at WOT, launched at 6k+ RPM. It's not for the shops mate.

[Turbonoz]

or you could use a stopwatch if you'd prefer?? or an hour meter like a tractor engine. although...i doubt you'll see an hour.

Wow. You really don't understand this very well. I map cars. Have you got anything technical to add?