[All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

[rookie-racer]

greg - im in... i like what you are talking about doing with these units.......

out of curiosity - not trying to cause grief here - am i right in thinking that you will be using the original case and plug to allow you to slot it into the original position and loom and sensors? if so then you really are offering plug 'n' play standalone ems.

just out of curiosity, iirc the ms2 can drive external kit like boost control etc, how will you run the wiring for that? i was windering abour running the signals to an old hd case through the forty pin connector with the relay board in there?

[greglebon]

I am looking at 2 different options at the moment: using a lengthened version of the extruded MS2 case, with the 26/16/22 connector on the end.
The advantage of this is that I can also use the latest SMD3.57 MS2, which has the extra DB15 connector at the other end for the "enhanced" stuff (Coil drivers, Launch, etc...)

The other option is to use the stock ECU case: the problem here is that it is slightly too short to be convenient, so it would need extending by an inch or so.......

I'm also toying with taking this to another level and building a nanoITX PC into the case, with a VGA output port and a couple of USB's.

You now have an in-car PC, so you can program your MS2, a media player, etc...AND an ECU.......Motec cannot compete with that..!!

Seriously, tho.......It all in the pipeline over the winter...I will certainly have a prototype of the ECU/PC in my car by the end of January....

Whether it all works out fine and dandy is another matter, of course....but thats what R+D is all about..!

[SB]

My first post on here in aaaagess, but just wanted to say good luck fella

I built a MS that was plug and play on a 3S-GTE with a DIY loom adapter. It required a fair bit of R+D - I had some issues with the ignition system, but the Extra code back then could handle it because of the dual trigger setup. This has evolved, and looks even better in Extra 2.0.

Taught me a lot about ignition systems, VR sensors, conditioning, crosstalk etc... that little project did!!

If you do find a source for OEM ECU connectors, I'd be very interested - I had a hunt around myself and came up with nothing - I butchered an old ECU in the end...

[greglebon]

Cheers mate..!

The only thing that has made me decide to do this is that all the bits of the jigsaw seem to be there.

My version will be controlling the supercharger, but this could just as easily do boost control.....

I've got the 3 wire idle valve board: the 3SGTE has a 3 wire ICV, I take it...?

I was gonna use the stepper motor control built in and mod it to suit, but Glen Hoag does a Toyota-specific PCB, so that saves a bit of work....!

[Ryan.g]

If you do find a source for OEM ECU connectors, I'd be very interested - I had a hunt around myself and came up with nothing - I butchered an old ECU in the end...

Blimey your still alive i thought you been eaten by geneb at the reading meet.

Anyway i have a source for mr2 ecu connectors now bud so let me know if you want any

Ryan.g

[greglebon]

Anyway i have a source for mr2 ecu connectors now bud so let me know if you want any

Ryan.g

Please...pray tell...?

I'm 80% there with AMP/Tyco....but the trail has dried up....!

[Ryan.g]

ygpm

[SB]

Blimey your still alive i thought you been eaten by geneb at the reading meet.

Anyway i have a source for mr2 ecu connectors now bud so let me know if you want any

Ryan.g

Missed the last couple due to holidays

Still very much alive and well, although the MR2 still isn't. Had another setback today, it's one thing after another, close to throwing the project in the bin to be honest!!

[greglebon]

Right...I've been looking at the pin assignments on the ECU connector, and about half of them are the same on the 3S as they are on my GZE conversion....

So far so good....

However, as mentioned by some, I think a Tubby Plug 'n' Play MAY be beyond the scope of Megasquirt, as there are the ABS, Power Steering, Air Con and, of course, the 2 extra Injector drivers to consider......?

Now my GZE conversion has none of the above complications: indeed it seems that MS2 Extra is ideal for my setup...

But a Tubby P'n'P is probably a bridge too far..........

[CelicaGT4]

I attempted this some time back, unfortunately the stock dizzy senor/tooth system doesnt play well with the MS - a vast number of people have complained about misfires and false ceiling limits caused by the decoding and noise in the dizzy that the MS picks up. Many have tried better filtering and grounding to no avail. In the end it is simply easier and quicker to weld/bolt a 36-1 to the crank pulley and be on your way.
I'm running all stock sensors (apart from IAT, and removed AFM) and had lovely performance from the MS apart from a misfire at 5500 rpm that nearly took my engine with it a few times. It performs fine off the car, both on the stim and with a "false engine" setup on the workbench, but as soon as its put into the car it goes boobs north. I spent hours with an oscilloscope checking the dizzy signals, checking for noise on the grounds, checking for interference from anything (worst culprit was the LC-1 Wideband) and in the end i've given up - its just not worth the time and effort. I've resorted to the 36-1 trigger which will be going on soon. I suspected the two G sensors and their respective tooth (its a ramp more than a tooth) but having trimmed them off and gone for the 2x 12-1 setup instead i still have the same problem. It seems this engine (3sgte) is the only bloody one that causes massive problems.

[greglebon]

Hmm..thats not good to hear: I'm planning on using an LC-1, too......!

However, regarding the dizzy problem.....I think I can get round that quite easily...
I have a dizzy from an earlier 4AGE: this has 24 tooth NE and a 4 tooth G signal wheel with one sensor.
If I cut an opposing pair off this, it will function as 12-1 with the one sensor: the same as if it had one lobe and both sensors paralleled together....
Ok for W/S......but I was hoping to run COP.....

I will persevere with the stock dizzy, tho....I like a challenge.....

Another option I have is to simply replace the internals with an optical set-up....?

Any more info on the 5500 misfire cause..?

[CelicaGT4]

Hmm..thats not good to hear: I'm planning on using an LC-1, too......!

I dont think it actually causes any problems, it is just apparent. I removed mine temporarily and it made no odds to the problems.

However, regarding the dizzy problem.....I think I can get round that quite easily...
I have a dizzy from an earlier 4AGE: this has 24 tooth NE and a 4 tooth G signal wheel with one sensor.
If I cut an opposing pair off this, it will function as 12-1 with the one sensor

Yeah, thats what I (and most) people did, and it doesnt work - it makes the 5500rpm problem worse. Its seems anything to do with the dizzy causes problem, not the number of teeth etc, although the 25style decoder doesnt like 12-1 for sure, thats a known fault. Your milage may vary but I wouldnt waste my time next time round, I'm wholeheartedly running for the crank sensor as I have yet to hear of anyone having problems with it.

I will persevere with the stock dizzy, tho....I like a challenge.....

Not wishing to sound negative but my honest advice is not to bother, i fiddle with electronics some of the time in my day job (im a roboticist ) and although im not claiming to be an electronics guru (im primarily a mechanical man) I have plenty of kit and friends at hand to try to narrow the problem down, and so far I've spent about £100 in fuel and wasted easily a week solid trying to sort it, getting nowhere. The problem was i couldnt find the problem, if that makes sense - everything seemed to function fine, i scoped the signal on the stock dizzy as it was misfiring and still couldnt see a problem/noise etc.

Another option I have is to simply replace the internals with an optical set-up....?
Any more info on the 5500 misfire cause..?

Other than the fact that I thought it was linked to the ignitor but it isnt, and the fact that it is pretty much a hard wall of crap you run into with nasty pre-ignition noises and a backfire the size of a cannon shot.... Its no better or worse with load, its not affected by running fresh shielded cables from the dizzy. I have the main sections of the megasquirt mainboard and each of the daughterboards grounded seperately with 5, count it 5 10A grounds...
Ive tried adjusting the dizzy position sensors, i tried removing the G sensors totally with a hacksaw in case they were causing noise. I've altered the PCB and tried two types of VR conditioning circuit - no odds. Hence my negativity im afraid.
It seems to be that the 5500 is linked purely to the 25 style decoder, but switching to the 24s9 decoder gives misfires throughout the range instead/as well. I ended up removing the MS entirely and refitting the stock ecu as I ran out of funds and cash, hopefully I'll be back on track in a month.

Optical could be a good way and may reduce the noise prob, but really isnt it easier to weld on a 36-1 crank wheel? I'm looking at getting one machined up that will weld straight onto the pulley, but there are bolt-ons avaiable.

[greglebon]

Thats interesting info...!

TBH, I was originally intending on fast-tracking the project by fitting the 36-1 crank wheel / EDIS stuff: Indeed I actually bought it all.....

Its only when I started thinking a bit that I realised it would be a lot better to use the stock stuff, surely (in theory, anyway!)......

I, too, work in the electronics industry, but also feel a lot more comfortable with mechanics........

Thing is, I have a guy here who REALLY knows his stuff when it comes to analogue electronics: indeed, I've even read the Toyota tech manuals over a weekend, come in to work on Monday to tell him what I've learned....and lo+ behold, he starts rattling off in detail how it all works.....!! (Smug B*****D!)

Now he has a couple of theories on this, and I just cannot resist letting him test them out, as it is quite feasible that he COULD crack this, which will be very useful for the MS community.....?

Good news about the LC-1, tho....!
That is crucial to the battle plan..!

[CelicaGT4]

How it works and what the possible problems are are easy , its sorting the problems that appear when everything should be working fine thats hard! I've added multiple input filters on channels, converted to Hall sensor in the dizzy instead of VR to get digital input instead - no luck. TBH the manuals don't give you much in the way of signal info or whats expected other than simple voltages (or at least none that i have seen do).

If you press on and get it working flawlessly im sure the MS world will be very pleased, including me!! So i'll gladly hand over the torch of trial and error to yourself and see if you can sus it out! Good luck!

[ast]

Are there any news about this? I think there will be much more interest for plug and play Megasquirt (or almost plug and play) solution as the programmable stock ECU development seems to be halted.

[luthor1]

I have an EDIS-4 module, coil packs, toothed wheel.

What I'd like an engineer to develop is a plug-n-play bolt on kit which fits the sensor and the toothed wheel to the engine. That's the guts of the kit. The rest of the MS install is just wiring.

Using the stock system is a nice idea, but in practice (like I said before but got flamed) it's not that simple.

I'll fully support ECU projects, because I still think we can should be able to do better than £850 fitted and mapped which is what we're looking at now for the LINK

[greglebon]

Yeh...I had sort of put this on the b.burner, as the stock programmable seemed imminent......

However, I'm now working on the ignition stuff, which I think I may be onto a winner with...

However, as said before, its the power steering, ABS and Auto box stuff thats a bit of a problem.

I think Jeremy may be able to give a bit of info about EXACTLY what functions of these 3 things are ECU controlled / dependent....?

Also, the tubby has sequential injection, so it kinda rules out a P+P MS1 or 2.......

I'm also goint to be testing the latest Microsquirt Sequencer as soon as it arrives on these shores.......

This will have far more output options, and should be able to do the necessary stuff on a Tubby.....

HOWEVER, (and this is a big however)........the main advantage I can see of MS, besides price, is the flexibility to inprove the fuelling and ignition setups: this is something that would not be possible with a programmable stock ECU....

I'm referring to coil-on-plug, sequential injection, MAP sensoring, launch control, nitrous,etc......

My GZE engine, luckily, is ideal for what I have currently (MS2 Extra).......personally, I feel that only the next gen of megasquirt (MS3 / UltraSquirt?) will be capable of running a tubby and doing it justice.....

Anyway, I'll keep testing and learning: if I make any interesting finds, I'll let y'all know...

[luthor1]

Jeremys' item can do all those things...

[greglebon]

Really..!?

So its NOT actually a P+P, then...?

There are hardware mods required to add those things.....

From what I've heard, Jeremy's is just a programmable version of the stock ECU: ie, you can alter parameters for the various functions....?
I was not aware it could do all these extra things...??

Are you SURE about this?

[luthor1]

He adds another board in there which mimics the functionality of the stock board, and adds further inputs and he can program it. It can do all the stock stuff and everything on top aswell.