[All] [Generic] Get insured properly or not

[Jaspa]

if you adding or taking away 50HP at the push of a button that makes a whole shambles of the insurance system - why bother leting them know that you could run 300HP if you spend most of the time at 250HP - if you have a crash do you really think they will care what boost you were running - ALSO THE STOCK CAR has is own Toyota VSV boost controller as STOCK so why the hell should you mention you have fitted another boost controller. - Yes you should, Because you are increasing the performance of the car, This does not mean you are more likely to crash, but you ARE more likely to take risks. Why else mod a car?


The insurance system for cars in the UK is b0ll0cks anyway. we should be like the USA the CAR is what is insured not the driver. Think how many Drink Drive problems might go away if a sober friend could just take you home etc... - Agreed, if the car is insured it would be different. The Driver is 17 and pushes the car too hard in a bend? Whose fault then? Should yoube paying even more incase a younger driver gets in the car? or a complete moron for that matter. Would you let someone, just because you wanted a beer or 5?

Do people that say switch from Rev 1 wheels to Rev3 wheels invalidate there insurance? what about changing the Rear spoiler and lights to a Rev 3? will do it.. - Yes, you are making the car apear newer than it is, more likely to be stolen and therefore the insurance should be changed acordingly


My thoughts only.

Stuart

[Jaspa]

DOH! Double post

[afennell]

[quote="Hellboy"]if you adding or taking away 50HP at the push of a button that makes a whole shambles of the insurance system - why bother leting them know that you could run 300HP if you spend most of the time at 250HP - if you have a crash do you really think they will care what boost you were running - ALSO THE STOCK CAR has is own Toyota VSV boost controller as STOCK so why the hell should you mention you have fitted another boost controller.


Your missing the point. You insure for a max hp. You should always insure all your mods, or your policy is invalid end of story.
You are trying to make a stupid point. If you are driving along steadily at a constant speed you're not using all your power.
You declaire all your mods because its the law and can have alot of consequences on third parties.
I think you need to be more responsible and grow up a little.
We have to pay all out taxes, we have to be fully insured, and abide by the law.
People that don't are irresponsible, and are the demise of this country.

[Hellboy]

if you adding or taking away 50HP at the push of a button that makes a whole shambles of the insurance system - why bother leting them know that you could run 300HP if you spend most of the time at 250HP - if you have a crash do you really think they will care what boost you were running - ALSO THE STOCK CAR has is own Toyota VSV boost controller as STOCK so why the hell should you mention you have fitted another boost controller. - Yes you should, Because you are increasing the performance of the car, This does not mean you are more likely to crash, but you ARE more likely to take risks. Why else mod a car? - id dissagree on taking more risks just because it may now be faster when I wanted to use it to its full - I know what car crashes and spins are like as it happend plenty of times on race tracks, I only use my at its full pelt on a track as its the only "safe" place to do it, day to day use my car rarely hits 3500 rpm through the gears and Im more cautious after being a rep for my old comapny for 7 years doing 40K per year I know the quality of drivers on our roads.


The insurance system for cars in the UK is b0ll0cks anyway. we should be like the USA the CAR is what is insured not the driver. Think how many Drink Drive problems might go away if a sober friend could just take you home etc... - Agreed, if the car is insured it would be different. The Driver is 17 and pushes the car too hard in a bend? Whose fault then? Should yoube paying even more incase a younger driver gets in the car? or a complete moron for that matter. Would you let someone, just because you wanted a beer or 5?
- That would be up to the person who owns the car to make the choice who would drive the car - Id rather have this and pay more than the current setup.
Do people that say switch from Rev 1 wheels to Rev3 wheels invalidate there insurance? what about changing the Rear spoiler and lights to a Rev 3? will do it.. - Yes, you are making the car apear newer than it is, more likely to be stolen and therefore the insurance should be changed acordingly - Exataly my point - doubt anyone would tell the insurance co of those mods.


My thoughts only.

Stuart

I am fully covered for Engine mods, Wheels, filter and Exhaust on my car BTW , Engine monitoring equipment are not declared though

[Hellboy]

i

Your missing the point. You insure for a max hp. You should always insure all your mods, or your policy is invalid end of story.
You are trying to make a stupid point. If you are driving along steadily at a constant speed you're not using all your power.
You declaire all your mods because its the law and can have alot of consequences on third parties.
I think you need to be more responsible and grow up a little.
We have to pay all out taxes, we have to be fully insured, and abide by the law.
People that don't are irresponsible, and are the demise of this country.

You dont insure for max HP output , you insure after market modifications from the manufactuars specs.

If you could just specify HP out put mine would stock as if the car ends up a twisted mangeld wreck , there is no chance of them ripping the engine out and dynoing it and there is no way of them proving what boost one was running at the time.

Also a insurance broker would not know the power diff between a HKS exhaust and a Blitz say or a Decat compaired to a bashed out stock cat all they would have on there system is "performance exhaust" with some made up " adds this much BHP" rubbish

Most modifications are required to be listed more if you expect them to pay out in the event of thieft.

Some pillock could whack a set of 19inch rims on the front ad back of his car, feck up the handling and breaking dynamics of his car - making it much more of a risk - yet aslong as he or she has to insurance company "yes yes me got me bling 19s init blud" and paid the normal £30 or so to add them to the policy - he or she now can live a life with a halo as they are holy and good , yet some chap who puts on stock 15inch rev 3s alloys onto his rev 1 and not declared it is breakign the law, even if this has made the car handle safer - that where the whole modifing delclarations goes to the wall, insurance is a ar$e and so is the law - but to be legal we have to toe the line but that line is a vague one.

[Caribbean_Blue]

if you adding or taking away 50HP at the push of a button that makes a whole shambles of the insurance system - why bother leting them know that you could run 300HP if you spend most of the time at 250HP - if you have a crash do you really think they will care what boost you were running - ALSO THE STOCK CAR has is own Toyota VSV boost controller as STOCK so why the hell should you mention you have fitted another boost controller.


The insurance system for cars in the UK is b0ll0cks anyway. we should be like the USA the CAR is what is insured not the driver. Think how many Drink Drive problems might go away if a sober friend could just take you home etc...

Do people that say switch from Rev 1 wheels to Rev3 wheels invalidate there insurance? what about changing the Rear spoiler and lights to a Rev 3? will do it..

I remember a xxxx insurance company banded about by Fast car and the liks - Adrian FLux? is it?

Told them on a old car about a turbo and decat - They classed it as a performance exhaust system - How wrong is that?

Trouble is too many insurance companys have too many diffrent ideas about what is a mod and whats not, it does not seem to have any standard list to go on in my experance.

Such a simple answer...

Because it is a modification to the vehicle from standard?

I do think this post is getting a little out of hand here and probably getting a little personal im some instances, I dont think people mean it but surely you can see how it angers them as I can see how much you dont like paying for the insurance.

A personal opinion is if you can't afford the insurance on the mod then don't get the mod

I have already said before simple if you get caught you could end up in a fair bit of trouble. Up to you either way been a quite interest post anyways.

[skinthespin]

I only get so wound up because ive seen the what happens to some poor sod who is on the recieveing end of someone with no insurance, and not only that but at the end of it all its the decent people with a concsience (sp) that have to pay for all the muppets out there, so for people to come on here and brag about it just winds me up, especially as they think there the smart ones, yet its quite clear from the level of some peoples posts they are not the smartest of cookies.

[Hellboy]

Such a simple answer...

Exataly - yes that would be a mod , but insurers would not have a clue if 19s fitted to a mr2 or any car that began life with 14inch rims, would make it more dangerours or not, you would pay your premium upgrade on 19s or 15s and away you go - one makes it dangerous the other makes its safer (hence why toyota upgraded as well as cosmetic reasons) but they dont care as long as you hand over the cash!

Thats why its a fuckign shambles!

[afennell]

i

You dont insure for max HP output , you insure after market modifications from the manufactuars specs.

If you could just specify HP out put mine would stock as if the car ends up a twisted mangeld wreck , there is no chance of them ripping the engine out and dynoing it and there is no way of them proving what boost one was running at the time.

Also a insurance broker would not know the power diff between a HKS exhaust and a Blitz say or a Decat compaired to a bashed out stock cat all they would have on there system is "performance exhaust" with some made up " adds this much BHP" rubbish

Most modifications are required to be listed more if you expect them to pay out in the event of thieft.

Some pillock could whack a set of 19inch rims on the front ad back of his car, feck up the handling and breaking dynamics of his car - making it much more of a risk - yet aslong as he or she has to insurance company "yes yes me got me bling 19s init blud" and paid the normal £30 or so to add them to the policy - he or she now can live a life with a halo as they are holy and good , yet some chap who puts on stock 15inch rev 3s alloys onto his rev 1 and not declared it is breakign the law, even if this has made the car handle safer - that where the whole modifing delclarations goes to the wall, insurance is a ar$e and so is the law - but to be legal we have to toe the line but that line is a vague one.

What i'm saying is, you state your mods to the insurance company, then a max hp gain from the mods. Therefore you are insured when turning the boost up and down a few psi. (As long as your supporting mods allow you to do that)

My insurers have always asked for this info.
Its very simple, if an item is replaced and is differant from when the car was driven out of the factor, tell the insurance company.

[GeoffC320]

Such a simple answer...

Exataly - yes that would be a mod , but insurers would not have a clue if 19s fitted to a mr2 or any car that began life with 14inch rims, would make it more dangerours or not, you would pay your premium upgrade on 19s or 15s and away you go - one makes it dangerous the other makes its safer (hence why toyota upgraded as well as cosmetic reasons) but they dont care as long as you hand over the cash!

Thats why its a fuckign shambles!

Sorry but you're completely missing the point. To avoid your policy being voided, you must declare all modifications, no matter how insignificant you think they are or whether they make your car 'safer' or 'more dangerous'. The insurer then quotes you a price based on their perception of the risk (which you may agree or disagree with). You then choose whether or not you wish to do business at that price. Not that hard to grasp, is it?

If you're not happy with their interpretation of the risk, then go elsewhere. I appreciate that many insurers don't have the level of knowledge you'd like, but they do not after all have any obligation to cover all-comers, their duty is to their shareholders and therefore to write profitable business. And young male drivers with high-performance modified vehicles probably don't turn the best profit margin....simply put most will find it more trouble than it's worth.

[Hellboy]

Ssimply put most will find it more trouble than it's worth.

Exataly that why most people dont bother with telling Ins companys of mods as most want to drive the cars with the mods , but would never get a viable quote!

[skinthespin]

Thing is insurance companies can pick and choose who they insure and there not breaking the law, if you have no insurance your breaking the law, sponging of decent people and run the risk of ruining someones life.

Thats all there is to it really.

[Hellboy]

Also whats to say most mods fitted to cars are not done by professionals with no training - surly to make a modification to a vehical truly legal you would need engineers reports - there are a xxxx load of Modified cars with mods declared so it makes them nice and legal - in reality they are deathtraps - what can be done about that? That is surly what people shoul dbe crackign down on.

[Andy Champ]

The insurance system for cars in the UK is b0ll0cks anyway. we should be like the USA the CAR is what is insured not the driver. Think how many Drink Drive problems might go away if a sober friend could just take you home etc...

When my son asked for a quote for my car, they basically said "no". I pay under £250PA. Why should I pay for the higher risk he (and some of you lot!) would add to the car?

And as for driving you home? My policy gives me 3rd party on anything. In an emergency, I could drive you home. Except the reason I don't have my car is most likely because I've been drinking too...

Andy

[Caribbean_Blue]

Such a simple answer...

Exataly - yes that would be a mod , but insurers would not have a clue if 19s fitted to a mr2 or any car that began life with 14inch rims, would make it more dangerours or not, you would pay your premium upgrade on 19s or 15s and away you go - one makes it dangerous the other makes its safer (hence why toyota upgraded as well as cosmetic reasons) but they dont care as long as you hand over the cash!

Thats why its a fuckign shambles!

Fair point, still comes down to the simple fact that its modified that is the only argument really. If its not standard its modified. If modified you dont declare you aren't insured.

And I think putting 19s on an MR2 isnt a great idea IMOA

I think most insurers would know what the standard car should or shouldn't have on the car they have insured. They will know this if they came to inspect the car at any time if they wished even if you didn't have a crash...

You do have a point, it is the shabbles but how much more is it to have alloys on your car apposed to standard wheels then? From personal experience, insurers are only interested generally on mods that boost performance. Alloys, as long as they know & you have lock nuts then fine probably cost 20 quid more or nothin extra unless they are very valuable.

[Hellboy]

Here is another thought for the argument, Insurers in my experence , have differerent "ideas" as to what they need to know about.

Some could not care less if you have a bodykit, others need to know that etc.

There seems to be a black hole in the info one must supply.

Does not seem to be 1 standard across the board that punters need to follow.

Take for example , 4 years ago I had a Capri 2.8I, insured with Hastings on a classic policy - They did not care what mods were on the car. it had a Full Scorpien system and a EFI upgrade and and modern ECU (as apposed to MFI) kent cams and some mild head porting carried out by Tickover in Bexleyheath. It produced a fair bit more power than a stock car at 180odd HP (stock is 155-160)

This did not seem to intrest the broker on the phone when I tried to tell him.

MR2 should be on classic next year, hopefully I can be paying 250 on a 3000 mile limited Classic insurance policy and have what ever mods I like if this is stil the case.

there is so much confusion!

[tonigmr2]

At the end of the day it comes down to risk.

Insurance is a risk policy. If you modify the car your risk changes, whether you drive like a granny or not. The premium reflects this. If you haven't declared your change in risk, your premium has not been paid for that risk therefore it is invalid.

It is not about how you drive, it is about the car and what you have done to it. Not all insurance policies go up with mods I should add, many car club schemes are cheaper as they assume someone who belongs to a club and who has spent thousands will care more for the car.

If you don't declare and you have an accident, fault or non-fault, you could end up not getting a pay out. It's a risk, some assessors don't know one side of a car from another, but some are very cute - and if they are looking for a way out of paying up (which they will do) and they spot an unlisted modification (if your policy requires an accurate list, not all do) then they are within their rights not to pay out.

How you think you drive or how many miles you drive are not the issue (unless you have a limited mileage policy!).
T

[impaler81]

I think we need to understand a typical scenario in which the original question was probably being reffered to..

Of course if you mod the hell out of your car and you end up killing somone from driving dangerously and you either werent insured or didnt declare anything then you would expect to get the book thrown at you, but lets consider a different scenario, as I have often wondered about this whole topic myself...

ok, so im cruising along at 25mph in a 30 zone and some pi$$ed up chav mum falls into the road in front of me, there are also witnesses. I run her over and she breaks her leg yet she trashed my bumper. I certainly wouldnt expect the fact that my undeclared aftermarket 15inch alloys, or aftermarket backbox would be a problem in that situation as these were not "performance" features that contributed to the cause of the accident by any means - and if they did refuse to pay out for damages simply because of something so insignificant "in that situation", I would sure enough fight the insurance company for it in court.

However, if i got the car nicked and I tried to claim the alloys and exhaust then I wouldnt expect to get anywhere, just would be the case if I wrapped it on a country road - the risk I am taking is me trashing the car myself and not getting a payout because i didnt declare a potential performance enhancing feature. That would be the risk Im willing to accept because I know my limits, I know I drive carefully and I certainly dont believe in paying hundreds of pounds more just for the sake of having aftermarket alloys, even though they are the same size as the originals, or a single exit pipe instead of two single standard ones which one could suggest is something that reduces the "look" of the car and makes it less attractive to chavscum - "ooh that car has two exhausts, it must be great, lets nick it!"

If someone ploughed into me and wrote my car off, I would not expect the cost of the alloys and the exhaust to be taken into account as they were not declared, but I certainly would expect the market value of the car to be given back to me (especially if the accident was proven not to be my fault) as after all, I am still paying insurance for an MR2.

Oh and then theres the aftermarket gearknob I havent declared....

[matt_mr2t]

Geoff - who do you work for mate - you in the Lloyd's Market?

As for insurance brokers/underwriters not knowing whats what on a car. Thats possibly true. But if they feel picky one day and dont fancy paying out a £100k claim due to a huge crash you caused they will simply pay some one who does to pick as many holes as possible.

I deal all day long with adjusters reports and the level of detail they go into is unreal - this includes taking appart engines the sizes of houses in power stations to make sure the insured has abided by the terms of their policy to service it exactly how the insurers tell them.

Few grand on adjuster bill or tens of thousands on legal costs, damages, injury claims.

That attitude of "why bother to tell them, I know best" is quite frankly xxxx childish. I hope an un-insured driver writes your cars off one day so you know how it feels!

[jmachling]

I certainly wouldnt expect the fact that my undeclared aftermarket 15inch alloys, or aftermarket backbox would be a problem in that situation as these were not "performance" features that contributed to the cause of the accident by any means - and if they did refuse to pay out for damages simply because of something so insignificant "in that situation", I would sure enough fight the insurance company for it in court.

They would refuse to pay out because you didn't accurately describe the car, not because the alloys or backbox would have been a factor in the accident. They increase the risk of the car being stolen/damaged and increase the cost of repair. This is why the premium would be greater, not because they make it less safe when moving.

I think you'd lose if you tried to take that one to court - the wording in all policies is quite clear about declaring any modifications. If you don't follow their contract, why should they honour their side of the deal?

As has been said before, most companies won't put a premium up for minor mods if it's through a club scheme that has drivers who look after their cars better than the average driver.

I'd be quite happy to see more stringent checks happening. If someone does get caught underinsured, it'll be the insurers having the last laugh as the cheap companies won't touch him/her anymore and he/she'll only be left with the option of the insurance companies that accept any driver but charge a hefty amount for that flexibility.

I would imagine there's a chance of criminal prosecution too depending on how the underinsured driver was found out - it is a form of fraud after all.