Why has the Toyota MR2 not evolved into the mk4?

[CosmosblueMR2]

I dont agree with it being out handled by many other modern cars.

Get them on a dry road, and i am extremely confident that the Mr2 will out handle most cars.

any car with 4WD ?!

[shibby!]

Double post

[shibby!]

"Any car with 4wd"

Dont agree with that, only in the wet, or on rough ground.

There is a clip of Evo and a Subaru racing a S2000 and a Mk3 Mr2 and both the RWD cars one.

The 4wd cars seemed to just understeer madly. On a track i would bet a rwd is better than 4wd. Although the evo, was far better than the Subaru.

An Mr2 on a dry flat road, would just as fast as Subaru or Evo. With the right driver

Nick

[lower]

That view is very rose tinted in my view. The mx5, mk3 mr2, s2000, 350z, Z4 etc which are all the modern day contempories of the MK2 MR2 all significantly outhandle the MK2 MR2.

That's not to say the Mk2 mr2 doesn't handle well when all its bushes, springs, dampers, geomtry etc are all in good condition/correct, but design moves on. 15 years ago the MK2 turbo (as standard) was a super car chaser. Nowadays its about the same as the fastest of the hot hatches.

I dont agree with it being out handled by many other modern cars.

Get them on a dry road, and i am extremely confident that the Mr2 will out handle most cars.

i cant think of a modern car that would be far better then the Mr2 that of course is a reasonable price. Not including 40k beemers with traction control etc.

Imprezza's Evo's are a different story, although im sure that on certain roads there would not be much in it.

Nick

[CosmosblueMR2]

"Any car with 4wd"

Dont agree with that, only in the wet, or on rough ground.

There is a clip of Evo and a Subaru racing a S2000 and a Mk3 Mr2 and both the RWD cars one.

The 4wd cars seemed to just understeer madly. On a track i would bet a rwd is better than 4wd. Although the evo, was far better than the Subaru.

An Mr2 on a dry flat road, would just as fast as Subaru or Evo. With the right driver

Nick

we'll agree to dissagree then..

it's just physics at the end of the day surely..
a car that has drive through all 4 wheels is going to grip better that a car just being pushed along by it's rear wheels, no matter what the road or weather condition.

and as stated above by "lower" - there's a list of cars for starters that out handle the Mk2 - which i would agree with IMO

[L0rdMike]

LOL well the MK1 is definitely an 80s classic, that's why I like it I'm an 80s chick.

But sorry, I stick by my view the MK2 is a 90s car!
T

But the MK2 first came out in 89, thus making it a 80's car.

[jonb-]

Yay, we're all getting road holding and handling confused again.

The mk2 is dated - fact.

The mk2 does NOT have class leading road holding OR handling by a long margin these days.

A redeveloped MR2 would need to be a significant project from Toyota to compete today.

I'm not saying it can't be done, i'm just saying it wont be done.

[Lauren]

Mk2 best model by far.

Most power.
Best looks.
Still looks good today.
And it handles VERY well.

Now i have not driven the Mk3, but im confident with a little bit of modernisation of the Mk2 suspension that it will be just as good as the Mk3.

Now my mk2 is lowered, and it handles extremely well, very nimble and very responsive.

Can anyone tell us exaclty why the Mk3 handles better?

Nick

Really easy that one:

Its lighter.

The lighter a car is the more responsive it is. The MK2 is a lard ar$e by comparison.

[Lauren]

But why is it more predictable on the limit? Aerodynamics?

I dont doubt that it will change direction faster, it is lighter afterall.

I personally think a little tweak with the suspension and it will be just as good.

Whack them both on coilovers etc i think they would be pretty much even.

I think the MK2 does not look dated at all. Set of clear fronts and clear sides. Think its an awesome looking car.

It actually looks like a sports car, which is more than i can say for some so called modern sports cars.

If the car is outdated why is it still faster than many many modern cars, thats on the bends and in a straight line.

I would love for Toyota to have a go at another MK2. 2.0 turbo, and great handling with a light weight body, with great looks.

Can you imagine, the body of a sports car, still mid engined, with modern chassis and a modern 2.0 turbo engine. no reason why over 350bhp standard horsepower cannot be done.

Nope.

MK2= lard ar$e.

MK3= light.

This is exactly why a MK2 couldn't dream of outhandling an elise, though there are a fair few other reasons for that.

When you have less inertia you can change direction more quickly its as simple as that.

I've driven all MKs and its blatantly obvious that the MK3 is a much more responsive handling car. It also doesn't suffer with the annoying (engineered in) understeer on turn-in that the MK1 and MK2 suffer from.

Half the reason the MK2 is still quick is simple, because its got a turbo engine and therefore good power as standard. Its chassis dynamics are outdated, its not an easy car to drive really quickly unless you really know what you are doing. It lacks progression.

Like Toni says technology has advanced and there are so many better handling cars out there. The MX5 for example is most certainly one of them.

[tonigmr2]

LOL well the MK1 is definitely an 80s classic, that's why I like it I'm an 80s chick.

But sorry, I stick by my view the MK2 is a 90s car!
T

But the MK2 first came out in 89, thus making it a 80's car.

<pedantic> I meant the revisions, LOL.

Come on chaps you know it's true, the MK2 is dated compared to today's technology...it is a great car for the era though.

Now? Brakes are poor and handling is 'OK' compared to most modern 'sports' cars (particularly when upgraded)...but there are a lot better...if you don't believe me go and drive a few!
T

[Rob]

There is no escaping the MR2 in all but most recent form is outdated - but in comparison to other cars of the time - it has held up very well and thats why it has a great following.

The point of the argument lies in the future - every model of MR2 has something about it - some more than others. If Toyota do decide to make a Sportscar model then it needs to be very good with todays competition.

They did it with the Mk1 and Mk2 - theres no reason why they cant do it again, but, as Jon says, they wont because they are selling loads of cars and they dont care if they are exciting, so long as they make lots of money - its just business over passion im afraid.

Trouble is, once you loose an area of expertees its difficult to regain in x years in the future.

I think Toyota's F1 team is a replacement for their sports cars - they are saying 'look at how good our sports division is' without having to sell sports cars.

Cheaper to run an F1 team than develop new models.

[jonb-]

Cheaper to run an F1 team than develop new models.

That's an interesting quote. Toyota F1s development budget is rumoured to be around 300million.

[steve b]

Has anyone actually driven a new MX5?

Doubt many have....and has anyone read the May 2006 Evo? They say all sorts of derogatory things about the new MX5.

So, dont count on a new MR2 being destroyed by the current MX5, there is certainly room for improvement. It's almost as if Mazda have said "Oh, the MX5 did well, lets just update the looks and slap a new one out" without really concentrating on improving the engineering.

Oh, and MK2 Turbo is by far the best MR2 ever!!!

I've had all but the mk3 MR2 and i'm now in an MX5, ONLY reason for not getting a mk3 was the absolutely no boot space, else i'd have loved to get one. With absolutely no boot it really would have only ever been driven to and from trackdays on the road. As far as which MR2 is the best drivers car, I believe its the mk3, which is the best daily driver, the mk2 n/a, which is the best round about blast car mk2 turbo.

If i ever get another mr2 i think it'll be a tintop rev3 on turbo but it'll be a trackday / drag strip toy stripped to the bone, probably wouldn't bother insuring it etc to use on the road. The roads are too full of camras and other cars to use cars as fast as a modded tubby.

If toyota were to build an MR2 replacement I think they should make it like the mk2 style wise but really sort it out with double wishbone, aluminium panels, concentrate on cutting all the weight out of it, 2 litre turbo with about 280bhp. Then could then really advertise it again as a baby ferrari, direct BoxsterS competition, price it about £28,000. I could see that selling to everyone that won't buy a porsche as principle.

Regards the new mx5 its my opinion and many others, the mx5 forums have splinter groups of mk3 owners wanting new forums because 90% of people think it looks crap and has lost the mx5 way so they keep being ribbed p.s. its a ground up new car, not a facelift thats why they bugg8red the handling, before it was great.

Thing is 2 seater soft tops are 99% bought by middle class women to run about in through the summer, then when the loose value get bought as cheap trackday, weekend mess about cars by blokes that can't afford an elise or such like. Very different to the GT sytle mk2's.

I don't think toyota are going to do anymore sports cars, they'll all be lexus.

[Ian Geary]

Get them on a dry road, and i am extremely confident that the Mr2 will out handle most cars.

Unfortunately it has been known to rain in the UK.

Don't forget the government's new emissions rules - not exactly turbo friendly, which is why manufacturers have been moving to smaller capacity VVT engines I reckon.

Fleet buyers wouldn't touch an MR2 type car, which in the UK, is where a lot of the cash is for car sellers.

The Mk2 styling (exterior) has stood the test of time quite well - just think of 90s rivals such as the Ford Probe and Nissan 200SX s13.

But the interior is sadly well behind the times. And new safety rules, as well as chassis and body technology (folding roof anyone?) will probably mean a ground up redesign is needed, rather than re-hashing the grill and rear lights (aka Subaru).

I do recall reading on www.celica-club.co.uk that a new Supra concept is out - based on a Lexus. An MR2 could follow:





Pics swiped from the celica-club forum.

Ian

[Rob]

£300 Million for Toyota's F1 team!!!!!!

Jeeeeeeees - why havent they won a race yet!!!

Okay Toyota - Listen up........ go back to building sports cars!!! lol.

[ENSMR2]

Get them on a dry road, and i am extremely confident that the Mr2 will out handle most cars.

Unfortunately it has been known to rain in the UK.

Don't forget the government's new emissions rules - not exactly turbo friendly, which is why manufacturers have been moving to smaller capacity VVT engines I reckon.

Fleet buyers wouldn't touch an MR2 type car, which in the UK, is where a lot of the cash is for car sellers.

The Mk2 styling (exterior) has stood the test of time quite well - just think of 90s rivals such as the Ford Probe and Nissan 200SX s13.

But the interior is sadly well behind the times. And new safety rules, as well as chassis and body technology (folding roof anyone?) will probably mean a ground up redesign is needed, rather than re-hashing the grill and rear lights (aka Subaru).

I do recall reading on www.celica-club.co.uk that a new Supra concept is out - based on a Lexus. An MR2 could follow:

Image Replaced With URL For Quote http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/57673.jpg
Image Replaced With URL For Quote http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/57675.jpg
Image Replaced With URL For Quote http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/57678.jpg

Pics swiped from the celica-club forum.

Ian

I don't think we'll see a new Supra. I remember reading somewhere that Toyota will not bring any cars "back from the dead"

That'll be badged as a lexus.

[MartG]

That'll be badged as a lexus.

With an extra £10K bunged on the price tag just for the badge

[Bibbs]

this has been discussed on the Toyota forum MANY times.

The Supra, MR2 and Celica names are dead.

The Supra will be turned into a high end Lex-ar$e ..

and there will be one replacement for the MR2 and Celica .. it's not due in 2006 though (a restyled Avensis is about it).

Also the 140 & 190 engines wont pass the next series of emissions .. so they'll be going low blown turbo engines as this gets emissions down for off boost tests.

[btodd]

I saw an article in Auto Express/Autocar? I think it was a month or two back about a part petrol part electric sports car to replace the Mr2 and Celica but have thrown the magazine away and can't find any evidence of it now online. But I have found the following which makes interesting reading and seems to be a similar article, MR3 anyone?

Link here

http://www.channel4.com/4car/feature/mo ... andro.html

[btodd]

I think this was the car the article was about.

http://www.autointell.com/asian_compani ... css-03.htm