What spring rates?

[HughesR1]

Just wondering what spring rates people run on the their MR2's, in particularly people who use their car on road and track.

My latest MR2 (Rev5 NA) came with fairly new SPAX PSX adjustable shocks and springs fitted which aren't the best shocks in the world but they perform OK on the road and actually better than I thought they would on track. However I can't quite seem to find a nice compromise with the damping settings, working from the full soft the full hard the spring rate just doesn't ever feel right. I emailed SPAX directly and they told me that the rates are:

30n/mm front and 35.5n/mm rear

which I believe is around:

3.1 kg/mm front and 3.6 kg/mm rear

I was expecting the spring rates to be stiffer than this for an aftermarket spring, and also assumed the rear would be have atleast a 1 kg/mm stiffer than the front.

How does this compare to your guys spring rates?

[SonicSW20]

4KG front and 6KG rear on BC coilovers. They also do 5KG/8KG, which is a common setup on coilovers. 6KG/10KG is another common one.

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/ ... =toyotamr2

This states that most Spax springs are progressive, so they won't have a fixed spring rate, - they'll get stiffer the more they are compressed. I don't know if the Spax MR2 springs are progressive or not.

[HughesR1]

Cheers Gazza. Those are the sort of spring rates I'd assume were common (rear being stiffer). I've seen a few of Spax springs are stated as progressive but these certainly don't feel anywhere near as progressive as other springs I've used, Eibach etc.

This MR2 also has very little understeer compared to any of my old MR2's which I wouldn't expect with the rates the SPAX guy has told me, but I'm not really too confident what he's told me is correct.

How do you find your rates on road and track? Good balance?

[Race Idiot]

H&R Coilovers on mine are F: 3kg R: 6kg but with extra helper springs.

Have you had a look at the springs, most progressive ones have coils wound closer at one end, where a linear one should be uniformly wound.

They should quote a range for a progressive spring especially as 3kg/mm doesn't sound correct for the rear.
This is a good thread to look at various different aftermarket spring rates if you have an account.
www.mr2oc.com/64-mk2-suspension-braking ... rings.html

I found the progressive type springs a bit wooly feeling on initial turnin, as they need to be loaded up before they get stiffer. Not terrible but something you get used to.

Also alignment can have more to do with getting rid of understeer I found.

[Odin_S]

Please remind me what the spring rating mean? Which is better for day to day driving? 4kg front 6kg back or 5kg front 8kg back?

[SonicSW20]

Please remind me what the spring rating mean? Which is better for day to day driving? 4kg front 6kg back or 5kg front 8kg back?

It's the weight needed to compress a spring. So 4KG/mm means a 4KG load will compress the spring by 1mm. The lower the number, the softer the spring.

[HughesR1]

H&R Coilovers on mine are F: 3kg R: 6kg but with extra helper springs.

Have you had a look at the springs, most progressive ones have coils wound closer at one end, where a linear one should be uniformly wound.

They should quote a range for a progressive spring especially as 3kg/mm doesn't sound correct for the rear.
This is a good thread to look at various different aftermarket spring rates if you have an account.
www.mr2oc.com/64-mk2-suspension-braking ... rings.html

I found the progressive type springs a bit wooly feeling on initial turnin, as they need to be loaded up before they get stiffer. Not terrible but something you get used to.

Also alignment can have more to do with getting rid of understeer I found.

Cheers! How do you find 3F 6R setup on the road & track?

I know what you mean about the progressive springs being wound closer at the end but tbh I didn't pay much attention last time I was under the car, I'l have a closer look later.

I'm glad its not just me who thinks the 3kg/mm rear spring seems odd, I'l email Spax again asking to confirm this.

[SonicSW20]

Cheers Gazza. Those are the sort of spring rates I'd assume were common (rear being stiffer). I've seen a few of Spax springs are stated as progressive but these certainly don't feel anywhere near as progressive as other springs I've used, Eibach etc.

This MR2 also has very little understeer compared to any of my old MR2's which I wouldn't expect with the rates the SPAX guy has told me, but I'm not really too confident what he's told me is correct.

How do you find your rates on road and track? Good balance?

Skipped over this post...

I find them OK on track, I do think the harder springs would be better on track though. Definitely a lot better on the front end now with a 22mm TRD ARB. Need to get a matching rear now! Spring rate is just one part of the puzzle though, the damper settings and the valving plays a part too.

On the road it's firm but comfortable enough. Having been in a few MR2's with lowering springs on stock NA or turbo dampers I don't find mine any more harsh than those. I've seen a lot of peopl say the 6/10KG's on HSD's, Teins etc are too stiff for road use which I can certainly understand!

Overall I think the 4/6KG's are a decent compromise between the two on BC Coilovers.

Here's a few videos.

Average bumpy B road - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZrPs49jSAM

Very rough unclassified single track road - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg1m22CPYtQ

Video showing the front wheel over bumps on your typical country lane - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzXpobsXX4

1 lap of Snetterton - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Md1ZG0AbnE

There are some slight changes in setup throughout these videos. 1 and 2 are the most current. The Snetterton video has different rear tyres, slightly smaller at 235/40R17 instead of the current 245/40R17. They were also completely ruined and replaced shortly after lol.

Video 3 has 205/40R17 front instead of the current 215/40R17. It also does not have the 22mm TRD front ARB fitted.

[HughesR1]

Much appreciate all the feedback dude

As you rightly mentioned there is obviously so much more to the overall picture than just spring rates but its good to get a decent baseline setup. I think I'l end up swapping these out for BC's or similar and probably will opt for a similar spring rate to yourself. I ran 4/8KG Tein Superstreets on my old rev2 and it felt just on the limit for road use so 4/6kg sounds good.

I'l check out all the vids once I finish work, looks like I'm after the same sort of setup as you for my Rev5!

[SonicSW20]

Have a look at the MeisterR coilovers as well, they seem decent value for money. There was an IMOC discount code at one point, don't know if that's still active.

[Race Idiot]

Gazza I'm wondering after doing some research if having a stiffer front ARB than rear will induce understeer. It would seem the best idea to have a smaller bar upfront with a larger bar in the rear to aid rotation, as essentially the larger the bar is the less grip you get as both sides of the axle work in tandem, I think lol.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ ... assis.aspx

I've got 22mm TRD allround on mine, but i've been thinking about swapping the front one for a whiteline and setting it to the lowest setting, or just having a play about to see what works best for me.

As for my springrates, I feel they are on the tolerable side when it comes to comfort. But I have a big front chassis brace, uprated arb's, solid strut braces and tyres with very stiff sidewalls.

Handling wise very impressed on track, the front end may be a bit to stiff for the road though.

[SonicSW20]

It will certainly affect balance. My car feels very neutral as it is in the high speed stuff, but I can feel the front starting to push to understeer unless I apply enough throttle to break the rear end, which is difficult to do in an NA with 245's!

Bear in mind the TRD ARB is hollow, whereas the Whiteline is solid. The Whiteline may actually be stiffer than the TRD for that reason.

[pbmr2]

H&R Coilovers on mine are F: 3kg R: 6kg but with extra helper springs.

They should quote a range for a progressive spring especially as 3kg/mm doesn't sound correct for the rear.
This is a good thread to look at various different aftermarket spring rates if you have an account.
www.mr2oc.com/64-mk2-suspension-braking ... rings.html

interesting link.

I've just fitted the H&R -20mm springs on Koni adjustable insert dampers.

First thing I notice is the front feels like much more of a stiffness upgrade compared to the rear. Day by day just winding out the shock adjustment but the front is only 5 notches from fully soft and thinking it could be softer by a notch or 2.

The rear feels almost too soft. it is at 10 notches from soft on the damper but feels like it needs about double that. Feels like it's bouncing or oscillating sometimes, needs more damping. loads of body roll at the rear too. it's a setup in progress.

Turn in is much better than stock, streets ahead. On these soft settings it's good. The new springs have an extra loop in the spring compared to stock.

these are the new springs



If the link quoted above is correct for the H&R springs then the fronts are waaaay stiffer than the stock and much closer to the rears. it has changed the balance, time will tell if a great setup can be found.

[HughesR1]

pbmr2, that sounds pretty similar to how my car feels on the road. I'd swear the front is over-sprung but I need more to time to mess around with setups.

There is also the fact that I've just come from an Integra DC2 which compared to the McPherson strutted MR2 has probably spoilt me a bit.

Might have a dig around this weekend and see if I can find any markings on the springs, and check that they are actually SPAX springs and haven't been replaced!

[pbmr2]

Going to give them a fair chance first, but willing to swap them out if they are not right.

Many people like the -30mm Apex springs. If the H&R don't work for me then I'll try the Apex.

[pbmr2]

These are the old springs, coil or 2 less than the new ones.



Discovered that the dampers only have 10 settings so the fronts were turned to 50% and the rears 100%. wound it down a little at both ends.