WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Discussion and technical advice the SW20 MR2. 3S-GTE, 3S-GE, 3S-FE etc
Anything and everything to do with maintenance, modifications and electrical is in here for the Mk2.

Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members

androo007
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:43 pm

WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by androo007 »

Hi chaps just preparing myself for the next stage.....

Forged build on way, then looking to take control of intake temps because looking for bigger power.

I'm really not clued up at the moment but know I have 3 options

WI - praised by many but seen as a bit of a bodge rather than sorting the source

CC - expensive but nice neat install

Boot mount - cheapest long term but relies on hole cut in boot floor.

Based on cooling eddiciency and cost, what do people recommend? I'll be looking to boost around 400bhp.
craig
Posts: 43936
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 am

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by craig »

Chargecooler. Radtech pre-rad, Bosch cc pump.

Probably looking at a custom chargecooler. My set up was proven on Simon hicks 530bhp MR2.

Custom top mounted core using 2 chargecooler cores joined together.

Pete will be able to give you the details. I personally wouldn't bother with a boot mount. Long pipe runs, lag and you lose the boot.

Just my 2p.
Odin_S
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:35 am
Location: London

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by Odin_S »

I was at the this decision this time last year.

I went with WI in the end. Not to say the rest are bad, although I'd not consider a boot mount as l use my boot.

If you're going with WI go for progressive, that way it works with your ecu timing. Aftermarket ECU needed. I've just had mine installed so I'll report back in a few months but initially very impressed. N.B. I'm using 50% water 50% meth

I should be at 400bhp now.... i hope :cyclops:
androo007
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:43 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by androo007 »

Thanks guys.

The more I think about it the more I'm not so keen on boot mount. Reading about WI vs charge cooler has been interesting, I like the idea of the WI actually having a cooling affect on the cylinder bore itself..... which could have a positive impact for cracking protection.
Martin F
IMOC Moderator
Posts: 14830
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: The Couch !

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by Martin F »

I have been through this decision many times over the last 15 years.

Every side mount I have tried struggled around the 350 bhp mark, boot mounts have been proven to work well, the extra pipes will make very little difference regarding lag.
If you look at these evos, pulsars and gtirs out there you will see the pipe work is very similar in length to a mr2s bootmount set up.

Chargecoolers work great also, in my head they are better than air to air intercoolers as the water sucks more heat out of the inlet charge, obviously my theory has been proven wrong so it's entirely up to you.

I am running a chargecooler now and it works amazingly well, seeing inlet temps anywhere from 5 degrees to 11 degrees above ambient, that's awesome compared to a greddy that would be bottling out at 30-40 degrees above ambient and stopping your mapping half way through.

I have tried water injection in the past as well, it cost me 2 bhp when it came on song and the standard MAT sensor wasn't registering it's benefits therefore making little difference to mapping the car on a hot day.

Also please take into consideration that if it fails the results can be catastrophic, especially if the mapped car is reling on it's cooling on WOT, that's my 2p anyway :thumleft:
pbmr2
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by pbmr2 »

looking at charge cooling my new setup. might not do the standard style install but the basic idea is the same.

nice short pipe run for the boost pipe, super cool charge and little change in intake temps. it does add a bit more weight but it's not a large amount more and the system works better than an IC and is more reliable than WI, esp for long drives/regular use.
Martin F
IMOC Moderator
Posts: 14830
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: The Couch !

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by Martin F »

pbmr2 wrote:looking at charge cooling my new setup. might not do the standard style install but the basic idea is the same.

nice short pipe run for the boost pipe, super cool charge and little change in intake temps. it does add a bit more weight but it's not a large amount more and the system works better than an IC and is more reliable than WI, esp for long drives/regular use.


I would like to say the weight is negligible but many years ago I had a Nissan 200 sx, every body (as in person) extra I had as a passenger made a noticeable difference to the cars performance, saying that you could just bin the spare wheel and pretty much break even :wink:
pbmr2
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by pbmr2 »

Had an s14 and a pulsar. they both felt the extra weight of passengers quite a bit.

Thinking of a lighter way of doing charge cooling by using 2 small rads, one each side at the back. much less coolant and hose weight but less overall coolant in the system so more possiblity of heat soak and double rads may be no lighter (if not a little heavier) than a larger single.

not worried about air flow as planing other mods that will help that.
spose if it takes lots of modding to get a system to work like that then most people wouldn't want to go that route.

jsut have to see how my build goes over the summer. get the keys to the new garage next week :D
C35Rob
Posts: 2108
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:14 am
Location: Gateshead

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by C35Rob »

Not convinced two little rads at the sides is a good idea tbh, the whole benefit of a CC system it being able to take advantage of the huge airflow at the front of the car.

If you need your boot then go for a CC, if not then a big boot mount will be cheaper, lighter, arguably more efficient* and less chance of something breaking.


*I discussed it briefly with trickster off here when I was looking over his car, he has a huge well set up BMIC and said his datalogs show mega low intake temps, I'm sure he said it was better than a CC system he tried, although my memory is a little hazy so I may be wrong
EX MR2 owner, currently on a '00 Honda CBR600 Follow me on Instagram @c35rob
pbmr2
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by pbmr2 »

Food for thought.

Not a fan of putting things in the boot as would like to reduce the weight in the overhangs as part of the project. Will have to think of some other ideas and see what fits and maybe even test out a few different ideas before the best compromise is found.

Thanks for the input!
Race Idiot
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by Race Idiot »

craig wrote:Chargecooler. Radtech pre-rad, Bosch cc pump.

Probably looking at a custom chargecooler. My set up was proven on Simon hicks 530bhp MR2.

Custom top mounted core using 2 chargecooler cores joined together.

Pete will be able to give you the details. I personally wouldn't bother with a boot mount. Long pipe runs, lag and you lose the boot.

Just my 2p.


Why would you need a chargecooler capable of 530bhp for a ct20 lmao
craig
Posts: 43936
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:44 am

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by craig »

Race Idiot wrote:
craig wrote:Chargecooler. Radtech pre-rad, Bosch cc pump.

Probably looking at a custom chargecooler. My set up was proven on Simon hicks 530bhp MR2.

Custom top mounted core using 2 chargecooler cores joined together.

Pete will be able to give you the details. I personally wouldn't bother with a boot mount. Long pipe runs, lag and you lose the boot.

Just my 2p.


Why would you need a chargecooler capable of 530bhp for a ct20 lmao


You don't. It was for sale and I bought it, it was a bargain given how much it cost to build. It's a top quality charge cooler with minimal pipe runs and was proven on a 530bhp MR2 so know it's well within the limits for my set up of 306bhp. Plus if ever want more power, cooling is sorted.
androo007
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:43 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by androo007 »

Still really stuck between these 2 ideas.

Does a boot mount really need the adapted boot lid, scoop underneath and all chopping out? Seems a bit extreme!

What I do like about WI is the effect is has relating to increasing octane rating and physical cylinder bore temp. Not come across someone with cracks that's had it installed yet..... there are good failsafe and backups, but the kit is up to 600 quid plus install.
Martin F
IMOC Moderator
Posts: 14830
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: The Couch !

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by Martin F »

androo007 wrote:Still really stuck between these 2 ideas.

Does a boot mount really need the adapted boot lid, scoop underneath and all chopping out? Seems a bit extreme!

What I do like about WI is the effect is has relating to increasing octane rating and physical cylinder bore temp. Not come across someone with cracks that's had it installed yet..... there are good failsafe and backups, but the kit is up to 600 quid plus install.


I sold a complete water injection kit, albeit an aquamist 1s on ebay and only got around £120 for it, someone else was selling one for £400 so bargains can be found...
I got nervous and tried to cancel it with 20 hours to go but ebay said I couldn't do that, I was well gutted to let it go for so little :(
androo007
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:43 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by androo007 »

Well seeing as I'm pretty much stocked up for 500hp on everything else minus turbo I went for the rogue rad tech cc.

I am convinced however water injection is a cracking preventative. Look at the big builds that have no problems - all run injection. Gts gav, fastasfck etc. Given it not only reduces inlet temp but also actual cylinder temps up to 150 deg that's drastic. Given we have an obvious hotspot by nature of the design of the 3s wall thinness I'm sure I'll be going down that route as a precaution.
Odin_S
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:35 am
Location: London

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by Odin_S »

Can you run both CC and WI? I have a PP SMIC and Aquamist. Yes it was expensive but rather than a long sad story of a cracked block.

If you go for both that means you have two pumps to watch out for. A good intercooler and WI imo is sufficient.
Odin_S
Posts: 1210
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:35 am
Location: London

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by Odin_S »

Martin F wrote:
androo007 wrote:Still really stuck between these 2 ideas.

Does a boot mount really need the adapted boot lid, scoop underneath and all chopping out? Seems a bit extreme!

What I do like about WI is the effect is has relating to increasing octane rating and physical cylinder bore temp. Not come across someone with cracks that's had it installed yet..... there are good failsafe and backups, but the kit is up to 600 quid plus install.


I sold a complete water injection kit, albeit an aquamist 1s on ebay and only got around £120 for it, someone else was selling one for £400 so bargains can be found...
I got nervous and tried to cancel it with 20 hours to go but ebay said I couldn't do that, I was well gutted to let it go for so little :(


I paid £600+ for mine in January #-o someone got lucky
androo007
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:43 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by androo007 »

Agreed, but my smic won't flow more than 350bhp.

Yep can do both, when I go up turbo size again I'll get WI so this future proofs upgrades. Side mounts are fine if you have a large one like the one for sale at the moment no problem.
jimGTS
Posts: 14024
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: North Kent

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by jimGTS »

my £120 w/i kit has been doing me well last couple of years.

recent track day at silverstone never saw me past 30c inlet temps, and thats at speeds up to 130mph on the finishing straight.

infact i rarely go above 20-25c at the moment, unless a long cruise out of boost or stop start traffic. soon as boost hits, w/i on, temps drop.

i have a st205 cc ready and waiting, but im still undecided to actually use it.

this is on an unopened gen3 that has seen the odd 1.3bar of boost on a cold day.


water injection also steam cleans the internals as a by product, win win.

my inlet ports
Image
androo007
Posts: 2363
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:43 pm

Re: WI / Chargecooler or boot mount ?

Post by androo007 »

Which kit do you have Jim?
Post Reply

Return to “MR2 MK2 1990 - 1999 NA & Turbo”