My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Discussion and technical advice the SW20 MR2. 3S-GTE, 3S-GE, 3S-FE etc
Anything and everything to do with maintenance, modifications and electrical is in here for the Mk2.

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C35Rob
Posts: 2108
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:14 am
Location: Gateshead

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by C35Rob »

Increasing your castor angle will make the steering naturally want to self centre more, it will snap back to centre faster when you let go of the wheel and make it more stable at speed (conversely less castor will make the car skittish and want to follow lumps and bumps in the road), increasing castor angle will also increase the amount of negative camber on the outside wheel when cornering so you can run more castor and less static neg camber and still get neg camber when you need it - I.e. On the wheel with the weight on it when cornering.

Obviously it's a different car, but I run 8 degrees of castor on my laurel, the steering is nicely weighted and it handles brilliantly.

If you have rca's on the front and are using standard track rod ends your bump steer will be negatively effecting the handling massively, the Lower control arm and track rod need to move in the same arc, consider buying some SuperNow track rod ends (I have them on my car, I think they worked out at £110 delivered from japan) which drop the pivot point of the track rod end down by ~25mm - I have 25mm rca's and my track rod and lower arm are parallel


Also, looking at that sheet, your left rear wheel is toeing out and the right rear is toeing in? For a stable planted car you want a smidgen of toe in on both rear wheels which will naturally make the car want to drive it's self forward.
EX MR2 owner, currently on a '00 Honda CBR600 Follow me on Instagram @c35rob
CalMac
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Northampton

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by CalMac »

Yep they're standard track rod ends, had to change the NS earlier this year. I'll never forget that - the guys who did the tracking afterwards must have forgotten to tighten something as two days later my NS ball joint separated from the LCA while I was driving. That was memorable :lol:

ANYWAY..

Would it be simpler for now to just remove the RCA's as somebody previously suggested Rob? I've only kept them on there as they were fitted when I bought the car. Or are the RCA's worth having if set up properly with the right track rod ends?

Not sure what you mean on the print out - to me looks like both rear wheels are toeing out.. Weird though as I did point out to Chris when having the geo done that I wanted more toe in to stabilise the car and he agreed :-k

I'm probably best to go back and discuss with him, ask about adding more castor, toeing in and adding more neg. camber at the front then see how it handles.
2barGee
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm
Location: Pontefract

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by 2barGee »

CalMac wrote:At the moment they're all set to softest as corner roll was minimal and I wasn't sure how else to judge it besides wallowing and comfort!

The shocks and springs are pretty much new, less than 1000 miles since fitting in June iirc.

So I should probably go back to Nptn Motor Sport and explain, might try and persuade Chris to come out for a drive so he can see for himself.. Then hopefully they could tweak the settings and see how it fares :-k should I ask them to take a look at the corner weighting too then do you think?

And 29psi front, 31psi rear seemed to be what most people go with so I've stuck around there tbh.


I'd have a play with the damper settings as with them being set to softest might be one of the problems, especially as your having problems over bumps etc. Is the back end more of problem than the front?

Other than that id go back to the place that set it up, they probably won't charge you anything unless its obvious you've smashed a curb and something is massively out. :lol:

Once they've checked every thing out you could ask about corner weighting, it only costs about £40-£50 mate.
CalMac
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Northampton

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by CalMac »

It's the front that needs attention I think, the back always tends to feel pretty planted. Not sure if that's just a weight thing though.

I might try whacking the front shocks up to their stiffest setting and see how it affects everything :-k
Race Idiot
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by Race Idiot »

When you say its a real handful putting down the power what do you mean? How does the car feel at high speed on the motorway? Does it feel twitchy at high speeds?

I know you said your power steering isnt working, maybe that is causing the issue?

Maybe try setting the konis to around halfway.

Rob is right about the rca's needing all the suspension arms needing to line up parallel. However i've not realy had a problem with just running the rca's without correcting the angle of the steering rods.
Nic
Posts: 1910
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: UK

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by Nic »

CalMac wrote:
Suspension etc. as follows:

16x7 and 16x8 Te37 with 205/45 and 225/45 AD08R
TRD ARBs
Koni Yellows with Eibach springs
Front Tein top mounts
Delphi drop links
No PAS afaik (I know that sounds stupid but the steering is bloody heavy however it makes a whining sound sometimes related to steering input when making low speed manoeuvres)
Camber bolts all round for further adjustment
All wheel bearings are fine
Arnage RCAs all round (20mm or 25mm, can't remember)


The Yokohama AD08R is a trackday/summer tyre, they will really struggle for grip in the cold, damp, wet weather at this time of year.
Nic
[email protected]
MR2 Rev 3 GT Turbo
CalMac
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Northampton

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by CalMac »

It feels ok if driven like a grandad, but as soon as I open it up on anything other than fresh tarmac it just darts all over the shop and tries to change lane of its own accord, which completely ruins any line I'm trying to take as it becomes more important to keep her on the road - it's a horrible feeling. It doesn't feel like the back end squirming, much more like the front has a mind of its own..

I'll see if I can get out tomorrow (depending on what happens tonight lol) with my GoPro and see if I can catch any footage of it trying to kill me :lol:

At high speeds (on track) it does feel a bit like death is imminent, but I figured this was just an MR2 trait so having gone down the downforce route (aluminium front undertray, splitter and canards) to find it made no difference, just accepted it :eye:

And Nic I wouldn't say it's the tyres slipping, although I have thought in the past that stiff sidewalls may be somewhat responsible. It just feels like general waywardness.
Race Idiot
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by Race Idiot »

I'm on AD08R's and they do tend to tramline a fair bit more than less trackday orientated stuff they shouldnt be pulling the steering all over the road.

It might be a good idea to get rid of the rca's and see if you can sort the power steering. Remember it is a speed sensitive system so maybe its causing the car to be overly twitchy.
masterbateson
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:09 pm

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by masterbateson »

One thing in my short time of ownership is that my car handled and felt like a bag o poo when it was on 17s.

Car felt 200% different on factory 15's like reallllly good! :thumleft:
Race Idiot
Posts: 2589
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by Race Idiot »

Calmacs TE37s are lighter than the std 15inch wheels though. Lightweight 16's are pretty much the sweetspot for decent tyre availability and unsprung mass on these cars.
C35Rob
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:14 am
Location: Gateshead

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by C35Rob »

yeah, I don't think it's anything to do with the wheels, more the direction that they're pointing and what's happening to them when the suspension moves
EX MR2 owner, currently on a '00 Honda CBR600 Follow me on Instagram @c35rob
2barGee
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm
Location: Pontefract

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by 2barGee »

CalMac wrote:It's the front that needs attention I think, the back always tends to feel pretty planted. Not sure if that's just a weight thing though.

I might try whacking the front shocks up to their stiffest setting and see how it affects everything :-k


Worth a try, maybe just half way and then higher of it makes no difference. I find turn in is better / quicker the harder the setting at the front!

What ride height are you at the front? Did you mention it was higher than the front?
CalMac
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Northampton

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by CalMac »

In MCM terms, the front arch has a shoe gap :lol: the rear doesn't though. I'd estimate front arch gap to be about 50mm and the rear to be more like 30/35mm. Not a clue why they're different!

Image

I'm off on holiday in a couple of days then got a PITA order looming the week I'm back so probably won't sort anything for a few weeks now, but I'll go back and have the geometry adjusted bearing in mind all of your recommendations :thumleft:

The front tryes are almost down to the tread markers now so I'm contemplating a set of Eagle F1 Asymmetrics or Michelin PS5. Guess I'll get the geo sorted first though because the AD08's are epic and I'd rather stick with them if I can mostly remedy the tramlining through alignment :D
Willenium
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Herts

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by Willenium »

Just my two pence. I had a serious wallowing problem with mine after fitting new BC coilovers and a pair of 245/40/17 Uniroyal Rainsport 3's on the rear (previously 235/40/17 Goodyear F1 Asymmetric). I was convinced it was because my new tyres were not XL rated and Uniroyal are generally quite soft. I didn't replace the front tyres as they still had a bit left in them. Got to the point it was dangerous to corner with anything next to me on motorways and dual carriageways and I hadn't pinpointed a cause apart from blaming the larger, softer rear tyres. Raising pressure helped a bit but it still wasn't right.

Anyway, fast forward a couple of months and the Ultrac Sessanta's I had up front were down to their wear markers so I took a chance and replaced them with some Rainsport 3's in the same size of 215/40/17. The car is completely transformed. So much more stable in all conditions and doesn't tramline even nearly as much as it used to. Pressures I'm using are 36psi in the front and 44psi at the rear.

Worth a thought if your fronts are on their way out. My alignment is not yet done since fitting my coilovers by the way.
CalMac
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Northampton

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by CalMac »

Those are really high pressures! I've always heard good things about Rainsports though.. :-k
2barGee
Posts: 2409
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm
Location: Pontefract

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by 2barGee »

I currently run rainsport 3s (16s) and they are one of the best tyres I've ever used, I'm also running bc coilovers and I have no problems.

Rainstorm 3s I found were even good on track, I cannot believe how good they are and how cheap.

How high is the front of your car dude? Your car looks mint by the way apart from the 4x4 look :lol: get it dropped!
CalMac
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Northampton

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by CalMac »

haha cheers! Yeah the front being that high does annoy me, but with my splitter being aluminium it makes a hell of a racket when it does scrape - I get weird looks from every pedestrian in sight :oops: I think I'll probably fit the lower front springs before getting the geo tweaked again though, see how they behave on these shocks :-k Geometry setups ain't cheap :eye:
Willenium
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Herts

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by Willenium »

CalMac wrote:Those are really high pressures! I've always heard good things about Rainsports though.. :-k


Strangely I've found I have to keep big tyres at this kind of pressure or they just feel flat/wear abnormally.

I'm not saying go for Rainsport's in particular, rather that replacing your worn tyres might be a massive help to rectify your handling woes. Certainly was for me.

If you're down near Hertfordshire sometime over a weekend let me know and we'll take the cars out for comparison.
CalMac
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Northampton

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by CalMac »

IT'S FINALLY RIGHT!

I've hardly been driving the car since March last year because it was such a physical and mental drain, with it following every rut in the road quite violently.

Changed my front tyres for a new pair of AD08R's yesterday, the previous fronts were part worn AD08R's off Ebay over a year ago and it's had the sketchy handling ever since. Can't believe I never thought that this might be the issue.

Moral of the story, never buy used tyres again :eye:

Feels so stable now even on bumpy twisty country roads. So nice to have it sorted now, I've had about 14 months of the car feeling like it's trying to kill me this whole time :pale:

Now I can go and put some miles on it , with the GoPro :twisted:

Happy Calum :D (or at least until something else goes wrong)
danjama
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm

Re: My suspension woes continue.. (skip to end!)

Post by danjama »

haha what :clown:
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