kev's beast from the far east

[GeorgeL]

I hope I didn't come across in a way in which I didn't intend Kev or offend you there. What you are doing is perfectly fine mate and it should see your goals no problem. I'd be extremely surprised if it didnt.

Yes bmic would be more efficient but it's not for everyone. (Some people require a boot space etc and as you said you don't want to bastardise your car as such)

As for a charge cooler I couldn't possibly pass comment as I don't personally like and haven't any experience with one on my own car. However, there should be a gain as you should be able to keep lower charge temps much easier.

I very highly doubt you would gain 100hp just going from a greddy smic to a charge cooler but if the heat transfer and flow is increased then you will see gains.. That's for sure.

[Ryan S]

Kev, pm Shmed on here, he has a rougue sidemount chargecooler core for sale for £100 Or thereabouts, I was going to buy it before getting the PWR system, PWR pre rad is £179 new. I have 10metres of industrial grade hose that I will donate to you (it's brand new and the correct size for CC setups).

[kev8611]

I hope I didn't come across in a way in which I didn't intend Kev or offend you there. What you are doing is perfectly fine mate and it should see your goals no problem. I'd be extremely surprised if it didnt.

Yes bmic would be more efficient but it's not for everyone. (Some people require a boot space etc and as you said you don't want to bastardise your car as such)

As for a charge cooler I couldn't possibly pass comment as I don't personally like and haven't any experience with one on my own car. However, there should be a gain as you should be able to keep lower charge temps much easier.

I very highly doubt you would gain 100hp just going from a greddy smic to a charge cooler but if the heat transfer and flow is increased then you will see gains.. That's for sure.

Ofcourse not mate no offence taken I have been looking into all options and for me just now this was the most cost effective to improve over standard intercooler.

Charge cooler is deffo the way forward long term but at this present time i couldnt allow my budget to go that far.

On the other hand, I guess what I am saying. If i made 350 (safely) the now and went to the expense of a new chargecooler and made 370. I would be quite dissapointed considering the extra cost. I am basing this ona new rogue systems one btw, However I know its not all just about power so I will research some more.

Thanks

Sheppy. I will do a bit research and get back to you on that and I may get in touch with him. I would like to have a bash at making my own system up

Cheers guys

[Ryan S]

From the research i did on chargecoolers and advice from other members about it, it can be done without too much hassle, give slipping clutch a PM, Me and him talked exstensively about them, he really knows his stuff. The main thing he stressed was not to use a car radiator as a pre-rad. Pre rads are different by design, give him a message, he's always willing to lend advice.

[ashley]

From the research i did on chargecoolers and advice from other members about it, it can be done without too much hassle, give slipping clutch a PM, Me and him talked exstensively about them, he really knows his stuff. The main thing he stressed was not to use a car radiator as a pre-rad. Pre rads are different by design, give him a message, he's always willing to lend advice.

I'm pretty sure there is no difference between a radiator for the main coolant system, and one for a charge cooler system. They are both designed to exchange heat between liquid and gas. (Although I'm happy to be told different).

The general advice is not to use a cinquecento radiator for a cc system as it's too small, use a decent size radiator to maximise the cooling effect- the one that comes with the rad-tech system is a good example: it's the same width as the stock radiator, so it doesn't block any flow to the main rad & maximizes cooling.

The other piece of advice is about building your own cc core- folk have used intercooler cores, and surrounded them in a case to flow water across them. They are again designed to exchange heat between air and water, so using them for a cc system is far from ideal.
The design of a charge cooler core designed to exchange heat between two liquids is different.

FWIW I would avoid the radtech core for your build- you'll only end up swapping it out for a better one at a later date...wait till you can get a larger one and then go for it (IMO). The radtechs seem to struggle once you get anywhere near 400hp (flywheel), although people have run more through them.

HTH

[Ryan S]

Can't speak for every radiator ever built but does a radiator not flow from top to bottom and one side to the other? A pre rad flows back and forth (twin pass) across it's width with the inlet and outlets being on the same side. From some of the discussions i've had a small CC pre rad is much more effective than a large radiator.

As for cooler cores, if you are on a tight budget the cheap xs power ones seem to yield some pretty impressive results (from what i've read) providing you're using a decent pre-rad, they look identical to the old PWR design. Can't comment on their quality but I've read a few things about the temps they can acheive. I'll deffo try and get over this week and we can have a blether about it.

[ashley]

The rad tech pre-rad flows from one side to the other exactly the same as a stock radiator, I have seen some pre-rads that are twin pass- but I think that is purely to make installing the cc pipes easier.

I can't see why having a smaller surface area for a cc radiator would ever be a good thing- you want to maximise it to give the coolant maximum exposure to the heat transfer area don't you?

Like I say- happy to be shown I'm wrong, but doesn't make much sense to me...

[Ryan S]

I've maybe misunderstood what I've read then, but it really depends on the airflow getting to the prerad, in the case of the mr2 there is very limited space so the parts of a bigger radiator that aren't getting much airflow would remain hot. What you want is something that fits perfect with maximun air on it. If it's bigger than the space it's going in to and is covered by sections of the bumper or whatever then it won't be as effective. Bigger isn't better in this case, as for radiator and pre rad being the same then you may well be right

[ashley]

OK- I get that if you had parts of the pre-rad that were out of airflow that could be a bad thing...so you just match the width of the stock radiator, which is what the rad-tech unit does. The whole cooling area is in direct airflow through the bumper, same deal with the PWR one from what I've seen.

The issue (I think) with the cinquecento is that it's not as wide as the stock radiator, so the end tanks actually block airflow to the main radiator....that and it's pretty small so doesn't actually cool the water enough and you end up heat soaking the whole system.

[ashley]

I stand corrected- cc rads and coolant rads are of a different design...

The temperature differential in the engine coolant system (coolant vs. ambient air) is much greater, so the radiator needs to be less efficient for a reasonable amount of heat to be removed.

In a charge cooler system the differential is far less (say 40c coolant vs. 20c ambient), so the core design needs to be more efficient to be effective.

Every day's a school day (thanks Peter G)

[Ryan S]

Yeah, it was frustrating me that I didn't have the PM conversation with Slipping Clutch so yeah Kev, don't use a radiator, for the sake of £179 the PWR prerad is outstanding value for money, it looks the absolute b0ll0cks too

[kev8611]

Good info there thanks guys.

Is there anything in datalogit that shows charge temp? Surely the air temp sensor on the inlet manifold gives out some sort of reading?

[Ryan S]

You can upgrade the ait sensor man, i think the stock one has a stupidly slow refresh rate or something along those lines, there are better ones that fit. Or a pc temperature monitor from maplin, put the sensor in (make sure it's secure) the inlet manifold, i've actually been told about a really neat way to do this that i'll let you in on

[kev8611]

I think its something well worth doing. If this weather lets up I might have a drive up your way this week in mine sheppy. 4 inches of snow at mines the now lol

[Ryan S]

Yeah it's bad here too man, inlet temp monitoring is a piece of p1$$, i took a stupid route with it and bought a completely overpriced thing that i probably won't use i'm free all day/night for the next few weeks so whenever suits you

Quick edit: you can monitor temps before and after your inter/chargecooler to see how efficient it is.

[jimGTS]

nice build and subtle!!


few points.

the FPR gauge, i would let this vent. ie pop a small hole over the seal thats holding the liquid in. liquid gauges misread when sealed and warm.

catchcan filter.
i would keep an eye on this, they dont last very long, as they become restrictive once caked in oil vapour. last thing you need is restrictive bypass gases.

mbc
surely an ebc would be better for controlling boost?

sidemount.
yes for sure itll make the power, but pull after pull you will notice it heatsoaking. saying that CC's heatsoak also, just less so.

[kev8611]

nice build and subtle!!


few points.

the FPR gauge, i would let this vent. ie pop a small hole over the seal thats holding the liquid in. liquid gauges misread when sealed and warm.

catchcan filter.
i would keep an eye on this, they dont last very long, as they become restrictive once caked in oil vapour. last thing you need is restrictive bypass gases.

mbc
surely an ebc would be better for controlling boost?

sidemount.
yes for sure itll make the power, but pull after pull you will notice it heatsoaking. saying that CC's heatsoak also, just less so.

Thanks Jim. I have now fitted an ebc (hks) since so thats ine thing off the list.

While on the point regarding fuel pressure. What should the base pressure be set to?

These are things outside my knowledge now lol

Cheers

[jimGTS]

somewhere around 38psi is a good number

(stock bgb spec says 33-39psi)


this is with the vac line on it UNPLUGGED. so no vacuum from the engine.
(or bridge b+ and fp with engine off, key on)

[kev8611]

Ok will give it all a check over

Thanks again

[Nic]

Has anyone tried mounting the radiator and CC rad up front in a ducted V shape, with the airflow exiting through a sealed vent in the bonnet?