No actually I took it all on board and you have answered my question in that its possible but may be unsuitable so as I said before I think I'll just fix the 3sfe engine in this car and do the upgrades to my 3sgte version instead it was more a curiosity, of whether anyone had swapped the heads between the 2 different engines.
I have 2 MR2 mk2's incase you hadn't realised 1 coupe & 1 GT Turbo.
The plan is to build a monster engine with 89mm oversized pistons and all the aforementioned upgrades (pistons, rods, maybe crank, injectors, hybrid turbo, ecu, etc) to about 600rwhp this requires a rev1/2 engine as block is slightly stronger and it will be for racing and effectively a modern version of the 3SGT engine used in le'mans cars.
3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
RedMR² wrote:89mm? Typo?
Must be Red, even 2.2 5S blocks don't go that high!
No 2
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
MR2 Rich wrote:RedMR² wrote:89mm? Typo?
Must be Red, even 2.2 5S blocks don't go that high!
Paper thin bore walls!
MrSpleen, you'll be wanting 86mm or 86.5mm pistons, not 89mm.
Stock bore is 86mm.
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
RedMR² wrote:MR2 Rich wrote:RedMR² wrote:89mm? Typo?
Must be Red, even 2.2 5S blocks don't go that high!
Paper thin bore walls!
MrSpleen, you'll be wanting 86mm or 86.5mm pistons, not 89mm.
Stock bore is 86mm.
Or if you want a cracked block 87mm lol.
No 2
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
If you sleeved a 5S block you might be able to get as big as 89mm- I've never seen a 5S block dissected before so not sure how far out you can go before hitting water.
To go that big on a 3S block you'd have to stick sleeves in there, but to fit them you have to remove so much material from the block that you risk cracking it between the liners (been there!), even with sleeves I'm not sure you could bore that big
Have you seen anyone using 89mm pistons in a 3S block- I'd be really interested to see details of the build? Always keen to see something new!
To go that big on a 3S block you'd have to stick sleeves in there, but to fit them you have to remove so much material from the block that you risk cracking it between the liners (been there!), even with sleeves I'm not sure you could bore that big
Have you seen anyone using 89mm pistons in a 3S block- I'd be really interested to see details of the build? Always keen to see something new!
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
Yes I mean 89mm bore and 86mm stroke making it a short stroke 2.2 making it a higher reving engine unlike the 5sfe/5s which has 86mm bore and 89mm stroke meaning it will produce more torque at lower revs but won't rev as highly.
TRD built this engine in the 90's and I've already sourced the pistons etc, it may be possible that the engine won't survive for long as in only a few races which is why a high mileage engine is required for extra strength, but if done right should produce around 670hp at crank if not I can do a version with standard bore producing around 520hp at crank the biggest problem is cooling and it will require alot of it plus making it drivable at low rpm. The key is to make it reliable if I go higher on horse power then reliability will drop dramatically.
Search using last part of web page address to see this amazing engine > toyota-trd-503e-engine-toyotas-entry-into-the
Also check out Speedhunters site page is > retrospective_gt_gt_toyota_supra_gt_lm_at_le_mans/
Sorry unable to post links yet.
TRD built this engine in the 90's and I've already sourced the pistons etc, it may be possible that the engine won't survive for long as in only a few races which is why a high mileage engine is required for extra strength, but if done right should produce around 670hp at crank if not I can do a version with standard bore producing around 520hp at crank the biggest problem is cooling and it will require alot of it plus making it drivable at low rpm. The key is to make it reliable if I go higher on horse power then reliability will drop dramatically.
Search using last part of web page address to see this amazing engine > toyota-trd-503e-engine-toyotas-entry-into-the
Also check out Speedhunters site page is > retrospective_gt_gt_toyota_supra_gt_lm_at_le_mans/
Sorry unable to post links yet.
Last edited by MrSpleen on Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
EDIT: was the 503e this fabled thick walled TRD block I've heard about? Apparently a stock block, but pretty sure they actually beefed it up substantially. I was talking to a reputable engine builder a few years ago about this, he'd seen one in South Africa for sale- apparently looked very similar to the 3SGTE until you tried to pick it up, when you realised it weighed twice as much!
Interesting bit of history...I'm really keen to see how you get on trying to run such wide pistons in a stock block. What turbo will you run, and how much boost? Will you sleeve the block?
Very interesting...
Interesting bit of history...I'm really keen to see how you get on trying to run such wide pistons in a stock block. What turbo will you run, and how much boost? Will you sleeve the block?
Very interesting...
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
Yep, tuned in to this one....
-
- Posts: 7642
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: durham
- Contact:
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
Me too, i'd love to see pics of the race cars you build at weekends too
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
ashley wrote:EDIT: was the 503e this fabled thick walled TRD block I've heard about? Apparently a stock block, but pretty sure they actually beefed it up substantially. I was talking to a reputable engine builder a few years ago about this, he'd seen one in South Africa for sale- apparently looked very similar to the 3SGTE until you tried to pick it up, when you realised it weighed twice as much!
Interesting bit of history...I'm really keen to see how you get on trying to run such wide pistons in a stock block. What turbo will you run, and how much boost? Will you sleeve the block?
Very interesting...
The 503 is a custom made block, 89mm pistons are never going to work in a stock 3SGTE block, but it will be fun to see what breaks first.
Designer for turbo set ups on F1 cars, and Nitrous Oxide Systems of the USA in the 80s
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
from "why not try to upgrade it" and "what parts will I need" to "I'm building a 600rwhp le mans spec engine" (bet your wife will love that!) in 3 pages..
-
- IMOC Moderator
- Posts: 10902
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:32 pm
- Location: Bonnie Dundee
- Contact:
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
Yeah unsubbed, i was happy to see a NA engine with a turbo but 89mm pistons is horesh*t
-
- IMOC Moderator
- Posts: 10902
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:32 pm
- Location: Bonnie Dundee
- Contact:
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
I'm all for tying new things but you can't say you need it to be reliable then fit 89mm pistons the post above my last sums the thread up.
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
Well on the plus side its getting my posts up whether you lot believe me or not that's fine and if you read all my posts I haven't asked how to do it the closest I have come was asking if I would need to upgrade any components on a head swap and it was more rhetorical.
[b]Ashley[/b] I'm glad to hear some useful comments from you at least, this is the first I've heard about the block being substantially heavier on the 503e/ 3SGT and it may explain why so many people here are saying its not possible in which case I may have to stick with standard bore but may be worth doing some measuring once I get engine apart, as for the turbo I'm looking at GT3582 once engine is built and it should fit nicely with around 20-25lbs of boost, as for the current setup fuel rails, injectors, intercooler, dump valve, waste gate, ecu and intake have all been uprated already so its engine internals and turbo that needs doing next and I'd rather sort internals before changing turbo. I will probably change the inlet manifold as the non turbo manifold actually has better airflow and doesn't make the engine run lean on cylinder 3 and will give better performance.
To those who don't want to continue reading bye o/
[b]Ashley[/b] I'm glad to hear some useful comments from you at least, this is the first I've heard about the block being substantially heavier on the 503e/ 3SGT and it may explain why so many people here are saying its not possible in which case I may have to stick with standard bore but may be worth doing some measuring once I get engine apart, as for the turbo I'm looking at GT3582 once engine is built and it should fit nicely with around 20-25lbs of boost, as for the current setup fuel rails, injectors, intercooler, dump valve, waste gate, ecu and intake have all been uprated already so its engine internals and turbo that needs doing next and I'd rather sort internals before changing turbo. I will probably change the inlet manifold as the non turbo manifold actually has better airflow and doesn't make the engine run lean on cylinder 3 and will give better performance.
To those who don't want to continue reading bye o/
-
- Posts: 7642
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: durham
- Contact:
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
Fella, you've owned Mr2s for 2 months and you expect people that have owned them and built them for nearly two decades to swallow this?
Respect needs to be earned around here, so let's start by seeing the pics of the race cars you've built at weekends
Respect needs to be earned around here, so let's start by seeing the pics of the race cars you've built at weekends
Re: 3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE
I haven't owned them for 2 months try learning to read and I need to have 15 posts before I can post pics or links you moron.