3SFE upgraded to 3SGTE

[MrSpleen]

Hi after alot of research over the last couple of years I am now looking at doing a rebuild of the engine on my wifes car, it has just blown the water pump and I figured if I'm doing that and obviously the cam belt at same time and I have a spare 3sgte head sitting in the garage, why not have a go at upgrading the engine to the 3sge or even 3sgte at the same time the same as my other car.

As I say I have done alot of research and I know the blocks are the same as in both are 3S blocks and the last part of the engine code denotes the cylinder head used, be it Toyotas (FE) or Yamaha's (GE/GTE) head and from what I can tell having examined head gaskets both heads use the same gasket at least on early versions.

Some obvious issues will be that I will need to get an ecu which will need retuning as the compression ratio is going to be around 10:1 higher than any of the turbo versions but lowest of the non turbo's and then will I need to upgrade other components?

The good news is the wiring loom appears to be identical and I have already upgraded the cooling system, suspension and brakes.

Your thoughts and sensible advice would be appreciated.

[Marf]

Why make it hard for yourself with all that carry on? Find 3SGTE rear clip, ditch 3SFE, install 3SGTE+box+electronics

[craig]

Why make it hard for yourself with all that carry on? Find 3SGTE rear clip, ditch 3SFE, install 3SGTE+box+electronics

[MrSpleen]

because I build race cars at weekend and I have most of the parts.

[PW@Woodsport]

Practically impossible anyway.... which will be a lightbulb moment the second you try and connect the turbo oil feed pipe.

As I say I have done alot of research and I know the blocks are the same as in both are 3S blocks

You got more research to do.

Just fit an entire 3s-gte engine

[PW@Woodsport]

Also this....

The good news is the wiring loom appears to be identical

The 3s-fe and 3s-gte engine looms couldn't be more different.

[Marf]

Compression ratio will be way too high for turbo, aftermarket ECU+mapping will cost a fair chunk and it'll have to run low boost with stupidly retarded timing.

Fuel pump, rail, injectors? Got those? If not you'll be spending out on buying them

Just find a rear clip and swap the whole drivetrain over.

[MrSpleen]

Well it sounds like I'm best off just repairing it and either selling it or just use it as is, as the cost of getting a complete rear clip is more than the cars worth but body work is too good to scrap it.
I quite fancied doing this as well.

One last question are the heads of the 3sge and 3sgte the same?

[craig]

One last question are the heads of the 3sge and 3sgte the same?

No, they're different.

Which is why, as per above, the best way to do it is a full 3SGTE rear clip.

[slipping clutch]

Not to heap coal on the fire so to speak but I don't think your N.A. block has the oil squirters ether - I could be wrong though. However Given you build race cars at the weekend I'm sure that you could source all the parts required from the forsale forum and build your own 3sgte engine? may work out cheaper than buying a full clip and as you obviously don't mind getting your hands dirty you will have a motor that you know the history of and can have confidence in.

[Charged]

Pics of race cars?

[MrSpleen]

[quote="slipping clutch"]I'm sure that you could source all the parts required from the forsale forum and build your own 3sgte engine? may work out cheaper than buying a full clip and as you obviously don't mind getting your hands dirty you will have a motor that you know the history of and can have confidence in.[/quote]

Yer I find ebay pretty good too and thats one of the main reasons I'm loathed to buy an engine already done as most aren't that great and although meet warranty standards i.e. run ok are usually well past there best and really need a full rebuild plus you don't know the history of the engine, the biggest advantage of the current engine is I know its a good one even though its high milage and I don't mind doing a full rebuild with crower cams, eagle rods, wiseco pistons etc because its a well rested block and any stressed areas would have failed way before 180k miles and if its good enough for the likes of F1 to use blocks that have done that sort of mileage before building them into 1500hp monsters in the 80's then its good enough for me.

Sorry can't post pics or links at mo

[PW@Woodsport]

Yes but you do realize the blocks are not the same as per my original reply..... there is nowhere to plumb the turbo oil feed line into the block.

It's a total non starter, buy a 3s-gte and rebuild that...... to race car spec at weekends

[C35Rob]

it's pretty simple to get an oil feed for a turbo though, isn't it.. but I agree with above, totally making massive amounts of work for no reason, buy a turbo (as in, whole car) they're cheap enough or buy a rear clip and do a 3sgte conversion

p.s, in for the race car pics...

[Al-sw20]

That wing would look awesome on my RX-8.

[PW@Woodsport]

it's pretty simple to get an oil feed for a turbo though, isn't it

Well yes if you fit an aftermarket turbo a simple oil feed line will do, but making the stock Toyota stuff work is going to be a mission.

Oh yes and the sump will need to be from a 3s-gte too, no oil return.

You would end up spending more money than it would cost to just put a 3s-gte in and be done with it.

[MrSpleen]

So the question is why would you assume that it is going to use stock anything?
I've already said its going to get upgraded components so obviously turbo would be changed too and if your using an oil cooler as well then you plumb the new turbo in off that.
As for the expense it does not have to all be done in 1 go and having a machine shop (lathe, milling machine, etc) to do it in helps keep costs a lot lower.

But I do not work on MR2's all the time like you and this was only a consideration as I was going to have to do some work on it anyway, I already have an MR2 Turbo Rev 2 that most of these updates will be done to and some already have. It was an interesting consideration but I will probably just replace the water pump and cam belt and thats it on wifes car as she finds mine a bit too quick already.

[PW@Woodsport]

We've listed loads of reasons why it makes more sense to start with a genuine 3s-gte.

You can turbo your 3s-fe, but why would you start with an engine that needs more money spending on it than a stock 3s-gte engine would be to buy in the first place?

I wish you luck.

[MrSpleen]

Because as I said if you were going to spend the money anyway whether your buying a 3sgte engine or not on upgrading the engine then why not use any 3s block it would probably be cheaper to use the existing 3s block than buying another complete engine costing at least £1000 and still spending £3000 on that one.

[C35Rob]

this seems like it's going round in circles, the expert has said don't bother, you clearly know better..

looking forward to seeing a Holset HX55 on a 3sfe