[Mk2] [Turbo] Stock Rev2 3SGTE: 487.3bhp & 364.6lbft, 2.2 bar & 8100RPM

[Ryan S]

or you could use a stopwatch if you'd prefer?? or an hour meter like a tractor engine. although...i doubt you'll see an hour.

Wow. You really don't understand this very well. I map cars. Have you got anything technical to add?

not really, just that you're my hero...probably a few others on here feel the same, swoon.

[dan4]

Fair play to you and considering its only a drag car it doesnt really matter but if you are running it for 10sec's at a time I doubt you will see temps high enough to kill a piston with a half decent map. The cylinder pressures are however a different story which it seems to be coping with so far

A top speed run would likely kill it

[jimGTS]

What dyno is that?

You will find it hard to prove its the highest powered stock car unless on a well known independent dyno, (dyno dynamics for example).
And a video wouldn't go a miss .

Either way, ignoring numbers, boost is mental.
I assume there's a huge nitros shot involved here? Or at least race fuel? folk are going to have a hard time believing you can run over 2bar on stock internals for more than 5 minutes, let alone make near 500hp on stock cams.

Great info and results, but I do await some independent rolling road results and look forward to some drag results too.

It's a dynocom dyno. I use it for all my mapping.

For reference, my 1600kg 300ZX ran a 13.1s@110mph on a map created at Santa Pod. This same map ran 382bhp on this dyno. Do some research into terminal speeds & power if you wish, the dyno is pretty damn spot-on else I would use somewhere else

No nitrous and no race fuel, have you seen the cost of that stuff? No WI either. Just air & fuel. The numbers are what they are, and I have been doing this for years To be fair, when I posted about running 382bhp@hubs on a stock 1809cc CA18DET back in Jan 2008, people believed that because there were lots of witnesses. I had a few witnesses on this occasion, but they aren't on here. Would you agree that at 1.4-1.5 bar and 330-350bhp would get me a 12.39@112mph? Which of these figures do you think are incorrect and why?

I map cars mate, it wouldn't pay me to fudge results now, would it?

Have a look on facebook, vids should be on there at some point when I get them off my mate's phone (my camera ran out of space videotaping a customer's 300zx). It'll be on the IMOC page and my own page.

Seriously, what kind of power do you think 2.2 bar on a T78 is going to make? 400bhp? The interesting thing isn't the figures. It's the fact I'm not picking bits of piston out of my back

my only point being, you used a dyno that is familiar and controlled by you.
be nice to see it on an independent dyno on a dyno day for example.
am not implying youve fudged numbers, simply saying a run on an indepandent rr would better represent your claims. (imo).

im amazed your making power behond 6k rpm at that boost on stock cams, this, from what ive gathered over the years is a weak area on gen2 engines.

i cant imagine your mapping any different to anyone else, its simply because its your own car, you can push it alot harder.
no tuner would map a customers car for these levels, hence why you very rarely see high boost stock engines. you have that advantage of mapping your own car, and if it blows, you dont really mind, lol. good position to be in.

yes i agree a 330-350hp car could see the 12.4 you had, but that time is greatly helped by you running drag tyres there not street tyres, so does make a big difference.

have you posted this on the US forums, am sure theyd be interested in your quest. they hold the unofficial records for these tyres of things.

[Turbonoz]

or you could use a stopwatch if you'd prefer?? or an hour meter like a tractor engine. although...i doubt you'll see an hour.

Wow. You really don't understand this very well. I map cars. Have you got anything technical to add?

not really, just that you're my hero...probably a few others on here feel the same, swoon.

Yup, thought so.

Sorry pal, I'm guessing you're trying to be clever in some way. Not really sure what that has to do with sticking a big turbo on a stock engine for a dedicated drag car, but as you were. Sure you've got your reasons.

If you want to continue, feel free to PM, this is a technical thread regarding the strengths of an engine. Nothing more. If you don't understand the processes behind this, do some reading and contribute as & when you can

Cheers

[Ryan S]

are you gonna act like a knob to everyone that's interested in this??? every single time you post, weather it's a reply to me or anyone else on here, it's you being a smart ar$e, i was genuinely interested to see how long the stock internals would cope yet you retort with a smart ar$e reply, time it whatever way you bloody want, i was interested in how long it would last, not what you drive to the shops in or how many cars you have or what these other cars are for. use a bit of sense you pleb.


on a side note if it's anything like the forester you "tuned" (with no other cooling mods) by turning the boost up to 19psi, it's most like blow up on your first run.


not a budget build, aye right mate.

[Turbonoz]

Fair play to you and considering its only a drag car it doesnt really matter but if you are running it for 10sec's at a time I doubt you will see temps high enough to kill a piston with a half decent map. The cylinder pressures are however a different story which it seems to be coping with so far

A top speed run would likely kill it

Don't know yet, will find out at TOTB. IATs are 47°C at 2.2 bar.

At no point have I said this will last a long time. It's an old engine that has not been loved at all. Like I've said, I ran similar specific output on my S13 and that lasted a season. Sold the engine and last I heard it was still going some time ago. Regardless, and I am not blowing my own trumpet here, it needs more than a half-decent map, mainly with regards to the fueling as that is where it made the power. And of course, the slightest bit of det means bye bye ringlands, so it needs to be spot-on. Totally different to the Nissans I deal with regularly. With them it's all about the timing, with minimal gain seen from running 11:1 AFR or 12:1 AFR.

It's not an engine I built or had anything to do with. It's just the way Toyota built them.

[Turbonoz]

are you gonna act like a knob to everyone that's interested in this??? every single time you post, weather it's a reply to me or anyone else on here, it's you being a smart ar$e, i was genuinely interested to see how long the stock internals would cope yet you retort with a smart ar$e reply, time it whatever way you bloody want, i was interested in how long it would last, not what you drive to the shops in or how many cars you have or what these other cars are for. use a bit of sense you pleb.


on a side note if it's anything like the forester you "tuned" (with no other cooling mods) by turning the boost up to 19psi, it's most like blow up on your first run.


not a budget build, aye right mate.

Hahaha, mate just PM me if you have some kind of issue. I'm not being a smart ar$e, you just suggested something funny and it made me laugh. Sorry. If you're genuinely interested in this, stop trolling and taking it off topic. It's about the engine capabilities.

Sigh. You can't "tune" the Forester SF5 Auto without aftermarket management. That one you had off me was just running a boost controller & colder spark plugs and nothing more. It was a smoker I had kicking around, as was your 300zx. Which, by the way, is running great.

Yes, it's a budget build. Anything else?

[rev3turbo]

I think Sheppy was genuinely enquiring and interested before you piped up with the smart ar$e comments, if you hadn't have replied the way you did then it now wouldnt be 'off topic'

I dont see the problem in what Sheppy was suggesting, ie: record the milage/usage.. afterall whats the point in getting 480bhp of it if it lasts 3 seconds, be it popping to the shops or on the strip? That way it gives future advice and data to other members so they're not wasting their time and money....

[Turbonoz]

What dyno is that?

You will find it hard to prove its the highest powered stock car unless on a well known independent dyno, (dyno dynamics for example).
And a video wouldn't go a miss .

Either way, ignoring numbers, boost is mental.
I assume there's a huge nitros shot involved here? Or at least race fuel? folk are going to have a hard time believing you can run over 2bar on stock internals for more than 5 minutes, let alone make near 500hp on stock cams.

Great info and results, but I do await some independent rolling road results and look forward to some drag results too.

It's a dynocom dyno. I use it for all my mapping.

For reference, my 1600kg 300ZX ran a 13.1s@110mph on a map created at Santa Pod. This same map ran 382bhp on this dyno. Do some research into terminal speeds & power if you wish, the dyno is pretty damn spot-on else I would use somewhere else

No nitrous and no race fuel, have you seen the cost of that stuff? No WI either. Just air & fuel. The numbers are what they are, and I have been doing this for years To be fair, when I posted about running 382bhp@hubs on a stock 1809cc CA18DET back in Jan 2008, people believed that because there were lots of witnesses. I had a few witnesses on this occasion, but they aren't on here. Would you agree that at 1.4-1.5 bar and 330-350bhp would get me a 12.39@112mph? Which of these figures do you think are incorrect and why?

I map cars mate, it wouldn't pay me to fudge results now, would it?

Have a look on facebook, vids should be on there at some point when I get them off my mate's phone (my camera ran out of space videotaping a customer's 300zx). It'll be on the IMOC page and my own page.

Seriously, what kind of power do you think 2.2 bar on a T78 is going to make? 400bhp? The interesting thing isn't the figures. It's the fact I'm not picking bits of piston out of my back

my only point being, you used a dyno that is familiar and controlled by you.
be nice to see it on an independent dyno on a dyno day for example.
am not implying youve fudged numbers, simply saying a run on an indepandent rr would better represent your claims. (imo).

im amazed your making power behond 6k rpm at that boost on stock cams, this, from what ive gathered over the years is a weak area on gen2 engines.

i cant imagine your mapping any different to anyone else, its simply because its your own car, you can push it alot harder.
no tuner would map a customers car for these levels, hence why you very rarely see high boost stock engines. you have that advantage of mapping your own car, and if it blows, you dont really mind, lol. good position to be in.

yes i agree a 330-350hp car could see the 12.4 you had, but that time is greatly helped by you running drag tyres there not street tyres, so does make a big difference.

have you posted this on the US forums, am sure theyd be interested in your quest. they hold the unofficial records for these tyres of things.

Mate, I run Nitto 555R road legal tyres. Yes, they help with the ET & 60ft, but it is the terminal that has the bearing on power I was talking about.

Ok, forgetting about the power level for a minute. 500bhp would have been great, but all I did was put it on the dyno so I could map it to the 2 bar as I promised I would do in other threads. Everything went well, so boost was increased to 2.2 bar. This produced whatever level of power or torque it did. Fact is, it held together.

Have you ever mapped a car? Every one has there own ways of doing things. I didn't want this to be about the mapping, but more about what a stock 3SGTE can actually do as opposed to what people think it can do...

Like I said before mate, I'm organising the IMOC TOTB team this year, stick your name down. You're running a decent spec aren't you?

The US forums... Already know what the 3SGTE is capable of. This is another case in point.

[Ryan S]

I think Sheppy was genuinely enquiring and interested before you piped up with the smart ar$e comments, if you hadn't have replied the way you did then it now wouldnt be 'off topic'

I dont see the problem in what Sheppy was suggesting, ie: record the milage/usage.. afterall whats the point in getting 480bhp of it if it lasts 3 seconds, be it popping to the shops or on the strip? That way it gives future advice and data to other members so they're not wasting their time and money....

yeah mate, that's exactly what i was getting at, lost interested now the OP has done his usual and turned it into a self promoting shame fest.

[Turbonoz]

I think Sheppy was genuinely enquiring and interested before you piped up with the smart ar$e comments, if you hadn't have replied the way you did then it now wouldnt be 'off topic'

I dont see the problem in what Sheppy was suggesting, ie: record the milage/usage.. afterall whats the point in getting 480bhp of it if it lasts 3 seconds, be it popping to the shops or on the strip? That way it gives future advice and data to other members so they're not wasting their time and money....

Ahh, another one....

This is what you said to me last time I was offering options to someone regarding fuel pumps:

everything you post either condones bodged tuning methods or cheap crappy parts

10/10 for trolling there, as ever.

Still running it mate, still cheap & chinese, still supplying 255lph quieter than a Walbro

[rev3turbo]

self promoting shame fest.

Dont worry, his attitude and replies are far from helping his self promotion. more condescending.

[Turbonoz]

I think Sheppy was genuinely enquiring and interested before you piped up with the smart ar$e comments, if you hadn't have replied the way you did then it now wouldnt be 'off topic'

I dont see the problem in what Sheppy was suggesting, ie: record the milage/usage.. afterall whats the point in getting 480bhp of it if it lasts 3 seconds, be it popping to the shops or on the strip? That way it gives future advice and data to other members so they're not wasting their time and money....

yeah mate, that's exactly what i was getting at, lost interested now the OP has done his usual and turned it into a self promoting shame fest.

Self-promoting a Toyota 3SGTE engine?

Still yet to offer any tech insight though mate.... Look, it'll be running at Pod and as part of the IMOC TOTB team should that go ahead and we get enough interest. You'll be able to say "I told you so" when it blows up.

[rev3turbo]

Ahh, another one....

everything you post either condones bodged tuning methods or cheap crappy parts

This thread makes my previous post on that topic even more valid

[jimGTS]

It's a dynocom dyno. I use it for all my mapping.

For reference, my 1600kg 300ZX ran a 13.1s@110mph on a map created at Santa Pod. This same map ran 382bhp on this dyno. Do some research into terminal speeds & power if you wish, the dyno is pretty damn spot-on else I would use somewhere else

No nitrous and no race fuel, have you seen the cost of that stuff? No WI either. Just air & fuel. The numbers are what they are, and I have been doing this for years To be fair, when I posted about running 382bhp@hubs on a stock 1809cc CA18DET back in Jan 2008, people believed that because there were lots of witnesses. I had a few witnesses on this occasion, but they aren't on here. Would you agree that at 1.4-1.5 bar and 330-350bhp would get me a 12.39@112mph? Which of these figures do you think are incorrect and why?

I map cars mate, it wouldn't pay me to fudge results now, would it?

Have a look on facebook, vids should be on there at some point when I get them off my mate's phone (my camera ran out of space videotaping a customer's 300zx). It'll be on the IMOC page and my own page.

Seriously, what kind of power do you think 2.2 bar on a T78 is going to make? 400bhp? The interesting thing isn't the figures. It's the fact I'm not picking bits of piston out of my back

my only point being, you used a dyno that is familiar and controlled by you.
be nice to see it on an independent dyno on a dyno day for example.
am not implying youve fudged numbers, simply saying a run on an indepandent rr would better represent your claims. (imo).

im amazed your making power behond 6k rpm at that boost on stock cams, this, from what ive gathered over the years is a weak area on gen2 engines.

i cant imagine your mapping any different to anyone else, its simply because its your own car, you can push it alot harder.
no tuner would map a customers car for these levels, hence why you very rarely see high boost stock engines. you have that advantage of mapping your own car, and if it blows, you dont really mind, lol. good position to be in.

yes i agree a 330-350hp car could see the 12.4 you had, but that time is greatly helped by you running drag tyres there not street tyres, so does make a big difference.

have you posted this on the US forums, am sure theyd be interested in your quest. they hold the unofficial records for these tyres of things.

Mate, I run Nitto 555R road legal tyres. Yes, they help with the ET & 60ft, but it is the terminal that has the bearing on power I was talking about.

Ok, forgetting about the power level for a minute. 500bhp would have been great, but all I did was put it on the dyno so I could map it to the 2 bar as I promised I would do in other threads. Everything went well, so boost was increased to 2.2 bar. This produced whatever level of power or torque it did. Fact is, it held together.

Have you ever mapped a car? Every one has there own ways of doing things. I didn't want this to be about the mapping, but more about what a stock 3SGTE can actually do as opposed to what people think it can do...

Like I said before mate, I'm organising the IMOC TOTB team this year, stick your name down. You're running a decent spec aren't you?

The US forums... Already know what the 3SGTE is capable of. This is another case in point.

unfortunatly i havent mapped a car no. something i would like to consider doing one day on something not werth much, as if it goes wrong, bang .
live and learn i guess.

for sure the US like there 3sgte's, hence why i thought it would be a good idea to get there views on it.
they personally say no more than 15psi on pump gas, its there fuel of thumb over there, so id geniunely be interest in there perspective running pump gas at 30+psi, lol. i know when i used to post on there they thought 1.4bar was too high on pump. crazy.
you may have some sort of pump gas record.

i dont run the mr2 anymore, i sold it about 10months back. R32 GTR Vspec now.

[Ryan S]

I think Sheppy was genuinely enquiring and interested before you piped up with the smart ar$e comments, if you hadn't have replied the way you did then it now wouldnt be 'off topic'

I dont see the problem in what Sheppy was suggesting, ie: record the milage/usage.. afterall whats the point in getting 480bhp of it if it lasts 3 seconds, be it popping to the shops or on the strip? That way it gives future advice and data to other members so they're not wasting their time and money....

yeah mate, that's exactly what i was getting at, lost interested now the OP has done his usual and turned it into a self promoting shame fest.

Self-promoting a Toyota 3SGTE engine?

Still yet to offer any tech insight though mate.... Look, it'll be running at Pod and as part of the IMOC TOTB team should that go ahead and we get enough interest. You'll be able to say "I told you so" when it blows up.

I don't have any tech insight to offer, nor did I even hint that I did, I merely wanted to know how well the engine coped with the abuse, I didn't realise it would be that difficult for you to understand without the mockery...interesting build though.

[Turbonoz]

my only point being, you used a dyno that is familiar and controlled by you.
be nice to see it on an independent dyno on a dyno day for example.
am not implying youve fudged numbers, simply saying a run on an indepandent rr would better represent your claims. (imo).

im amazed your making power behond 6k rpm at that boost on stock cams, this, from what ive gathered over the years is a weak area on gen2 engines.

i cant imagine your mapping any different to anyone else, its simply because its your own car, you can push it alot harder.
no tuner would map a customers car for these levels, hence why you very rarely see high boost stock engines. you have that advantage of mapping your own car, and if it blows, you dont really mind, lol. good position to be in.

yes i agree a 330-350hp car could see the 12.4 you had, but that time is greatly helped by you running drag tyres there not street tyres, so does make a big difference.

have you posted this on the US forums, am sure theyd be interested in your quest. they hold the unofficial records for these tyres of things.

Mate, I run Nitto 555R road legal tyres. Yes, they help with the ET & 60ft, but it is the terminal that has the bearing on power I was talking about.

Ok, forgetting about the power level for a minute. 500bhp would have been great, but all I did was put it on the dyno so I could map it to the 2 bar as I promised I would do in other threads. Everything went well, so boost was increased to 2.2 bar. This produced whatever level of power or torque it did. Fact is, it held together.

Have you ever mapped a car? Every one has there own ways of doing things. I didn't want this to be about the mapping, but more about what a stock 3SGTE can actually do as opposed to what people think it can do...

Like I said before mate, I'm organising the IMOC TOTB team this year, stick your name down. You're running a decent spec aren't you?

The US forums... Already know what the 3SGTE is capable of. This is another case in point.

unfortunatly i havent mapped a car no. something i would like to consider doing one day on something not werth much, as if it goes wrong, bang .
live and learn i guess.

for sure the US like there 3sgte's, hence why i thought it would be a good idea to get there views on it.
they personally say no more than 15psi on pump gas, its there fuel of thumb over there, so id geniunely be interest in there perspective running pump gas at 30+psi, lol. i know when i used to post on there they thought 1.4bar was too high on pump. crazy.
you may have some sort of pump gas record.

i dont run the mr2 anymore, i sold it about 10months back. R32 GTR Vspec now.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a twit, it's just that there are so many different ways of mapping. It's a lot of fun though. Thankfully, I've not blown a car up yet. I do have a certain luxury in that I can push a car, but what use is it if it blows up on me? Just makes me look bad, even if it is to find the limits. Didn't Fensport run ridiculous power on a stock 3SGTE years ago?

R32 GTR Vspec.... Awesome. Just awesome. Cylinder 6 treating you well, I hope?

[rs007]

Idiots question because you have already stressed the stockness of the stock engine

But need to be one million percent sure

Stock compression ratio?

Bob Hatton was saying in a thread I started on fueling that this is the defining limiter on 3s-gte power, implication being it will det itself to pieces if the boost is pushed, and to be fair the stock CR is higher than most similarly specced engines. But through aggressive inlet charge cooling, and good fueling, you've avoided this, yes? I'm guessing so, since it didn't turn into a jap 4 cylinder grenade, Jeff Hartman also exceeded the commonly quoted power ceiling both inexpensively and easily...

Reliability for the rest of us using them as road car is naturally going to be a concern, but I acknowledge that is not what this project is about. But then, I doubt many road users are as hard on their cars as multiple runs up the strip lol!

To those talking about US popular boost limits in pump fuel - isn't their fuel really crap octane? Like 93 ish?

[Turbonoz]

yeah mate, that's exactly what i was getting at, lost interested now the OP has done his usual and turned it into a self promoting shame fest.

Self-promoting a Toyota 3SGTE engine?

Still yet to offer any tech insight though mate.... Look, it'll be running at Pod and as part of the IMOC TOTB team should that go ahead and we get enough interest. You'll be able to say "I told you so" when it blows up.

I don't have any tech insight to offer, nor did I even hint that I did, I merely wanted to know how well the engine coped with the abuse, I didn't realise it would be that difficult for you to understand without the mockery...interesting build though.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. A lot of your posts are stating you can't run over a certain amount of boost with stock injectors, my point is that you can do a lot with these engines in various stages. If you look back at my threads, that's what the main theme has been about. The only issue is the stock ECU, so you need to budget for an aftermarket solution for proper control. Only then, will you be able to find the limits of various components and be able to state that as empirical fact for a specific set-up or car. With Nissans, the stock ECUs are mappable, so we can find all this out without needing to spend a fair wedge of money before even getting started

Well, the MR2 will be at Pod & Shakespeare a lot as it needs to be proven on the strip. If you're into your drifting, I'll be up at Knockhill mapping some BDC cars so we can stop being internet retards and have a good laugh

[Turbonoz]

Idiots question because you have already stressed the stockness of the stock engine

But need to be one million percent sure

Stock compression ratio?

Bob Hatton was saying in a thread I started on fueling that this is the defining limiter on 3s-gte power, implication being it will det itself to pieces if the boost is pushed, and to be fair the stock CR is higher than most similarly specced engines. But through aggressive inlet charge cooling, and good fueling, you've avoided this, yes? I'm guessing so, since it didn't turn into a jap 4 cylinder grenade, Jeff Hartman also exceeded the commonly quoted power ceiling both inexpensively and easily...

Reliability for the rest of us using them as road concern is naturally going to be a concern, but I acknowledge that is not what this project is about. But then, I doubt many road users are as hard on their cars as multiple runs up the strip lol!

To those talking about US popular boost limits in pump fuel - isn't their fuel really crap octane? Like 93 ish?

I believe it to be stock compression, it is running what appears to be a stock Rev 3 MHG. I also run BCR8ES spark plugs which is colder than stock. I run these plugs in everything. They are amazing.

If only more people would read Jeff Hartman's book. It has a whole chapter dedicated to the 3SGTE!! So many questions answered without the need for speculation. If my answers or posts sometimes seem like I'm being an ar$e, it's just frustration of hearing the same thing repeated, even though I take the time to post what can actually be done (as in running 1.4 bar on a CT26 on stock 440s on a stock ECU with very good fueling, base ign on 8°BTDC). Yeah, my intake temps are 47°C at 2.2 bar, given that I am running the biggest turbo possible on a stock engine IMO (very close to the surge line, too close...).

With regards to reliability, if the pistons last a suitable amount of time, then it bodes very well for lots of 400bhp 3SGTEs. Instead of buying forged pistons & a decent ECU, you just buy an ECU. It's been that way with the SR20DET for a long time, I personally think it's very exciting. Believe me, I was extremely impressed with the way that the engine responded once boost was increased to 2 bar & beyond.

To anyone that thinks I've just posted this out of nowhere, please look back through my threads & posts. I have been planning on doing this for a long time. The car has been living at Santa Pod for the last year. It only gets driven up the strip or on the dyno...