[Mk2] [Turbo] Car trouble. Idles but any revs, just cuts out and dies? *UPDATE*

[Lewis Jay]

Lewis i just want to confirm with Ryan it's ok to swap the pins at the ecu before I go ahead. Him being an ecu guru and all. Have seen the pins on the gen3 ecu diagrams online and there right next to each other. So should be easy to swap around.
My only concern before doing it is if the g1/G2 input runs other things as well as the dizzy.

Fair enough, cant fault you wanting to make sure it not a issue but I know what I would do

Anyway, now I've tested that dizzy, and asuming swapping g1/G2 is now meaningless.

No guarantees the second hand dizzy is not faulty

Have you tested the outputs G1/G2 at the ECU with each dizzy, you will be sure then if either or both are faulty?

As you say they are next to each other, so easy to do.

[jimGTS]

When you say test the outputs, you just refering to continuity from the dizzy plug to the ecu pin. Or something else ment by output?
How would I do that?

Both dizzys meet the bgb spec btw on a separate note.

[Lewis Jay]

I would test the output of the dizzy at the ECU on each of the wires G1 and G2.

My understanding is that there will be a signal voltge output to the ECU so it knows when to fire, this will be present on G1 and G2, if they are the same and both present its not the dizzy.

If G1 isnt present then its the dizzy and that explains why the stock ECU works and the PFC doesnt.

(G1 fails the stock ECU then takes that signal from G2, therefore I figured they must be the same so the PFC maybe able to use either).


I am just trying to offer possibilites, things I would try.

[jimGTS]

So I'd need my mulitmeter out in the volt setting, run the car at idle, + mm wire to g1 or g2, - mm wire to a ground, like one of the bolts that bolt the stock ecu to the firewall.????

And see what I get??

[Lewis Jay]

[greeny]

I think IIRC the G1 & G2 signals are 180 degrees apart from each other.

Not sure whether you can change it in the power fc settings/software though?

Michael.

[Ryan.g]

Jim

The G1 and G2 are alternating wave forms so the only way to see if the signal is good on them it to use an oscilloscope.

The G1 and G2 wave forms are 360 degrees out of phase and with the powerfc you cant change it to look at g2 instead. Swapping the wires round wont help either.

What i would suggest doing is firstly try bridging B+ and FP and make sure its not fuel supply related again.

Check the sensor check option of the powerfc commandor in the ETC window and make sure the tps voltage and Map etc are changing. If any are highlighted black then report back.

Then i would continuety check the G1 wire back to the powerfc as well as the g- wire also.

Ryan

[jimGTS]

Ok so only thing i can do g1 and g2 wise is check continuity from plug to the power fc pin. Including the g also????

I'll bridge to run fuel pump 24/7 as well, not quite sure why the hell I haven't tried that already. It was the first thing I check last time!

There were no black boxes on the commander.
Changing voltage on tps and map, is that how there labelled in the commander? Or any other abbreviation??
We talking up and down changes of what, 1/2 a volt or something?

I can check all that (when the cars back together, took this non running time to remove a ton of stuff from the car and clean and spray)

[jimGTS]

Ok update

there's continuity between g1, g2 and g from the dizzy plug to the ecu.

I finally foud out how my resistor pack had been disabled.
The long loom plug had been cut a few inch in, and all soldered together.

I had continuity between this soldered piece and each + of the injector plug.

Each injector had 4.3ohm resistance (guess as there large injectors)

I've tested the tps, and am not sure if there's any difference between the rev1/2 and rev3-5 tps readings???? As I've checked it against the usdm bgb, and getting different results.

I'll get some specifc readings later.

Seeig how I've removed all the inlet manifold, tb and fuel rail, been able to get these readings. And seen no damage to any vac lines. So that's all ok.


Next I tested the coil pack, and was only getting about 0.08 ohms. Bgb says ment to get 0.41-0.50. But again, don't know whether a rev3+ is ment to be different???

I checked the resistance between the coil pack and coil lead terminal, and got 12k ohms, which is between the 10-14k ohms on the bgb.


Anyone any comments/ ideas????

I've still got to put a few bits back together, by once I do that I'll bridge the fuel pump to test that to.

[jimGTS]

ok, car back together....

i tried bridging the b+ and fp, made no difference...

still sounds like its missing on 1 cylinder. (but not missing on the rev3 ecu).

the leads are firing on each cylinder

so in guessing its just not firing 1 of the injectors??

like i said above, ive checked all continuty from each injector plug to the resistor plug, and all have continuity to the resistor pack plug were there soldered (as there high impedance injectors)....finally found out how the resistor pack has been bypassed.



anyone confirm these are sard 850s???
(getting 4.3k ohms.)








looked at the sensor check, no black boxes, and all the Volt readings were moving. some more than others.



now regarding the TPS, ive checked and the st205 (rev3+ engine) online BGB, its different to the USDM rev1/2 in terms of resistance readings.

mine are actually in spec, apart from the 0.9mm feeler gauge test, it doesnt go to infinity, needs a little more opening for the resistance to go to infinity, but apart from that, all within spec.

now unfortunatly the st205 bgb, hasnt got the "ignition" section, so i cant check the coil......

now as said above, was only getting 0.08ohms on the coil pack, USDM rev1/2 says its ment to be 0.41-0.5ohms, but not sure if the gen3 engine is different (well the tps was different)

click on throttle body, and youll see the resistance specs for gen3

http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/ ... /EG/EG.htm

my results against the bgb table

im getting 0.4k ohms
0.03k ohms
0.05k ohms (not infinity)
2.85k ohms
3.8k ohms



now coil???
anyone any ideas where i can find the bgb specs for it????




any more ideas folks????

apart from swapping in a known working powerFC, im not sure what else to check.....?

this is the fruit of my labour anyway, getting off all my engine parts, cleaned and painted.

[JJ]

Jim,

Have you still got the stock map sensor ??! I've got a pheonix power ecu that drives the 850s... plug and play ... tuned to 1.7 bar.......

You can run around on this if you want ... dont recommend boosting above 8 psi though...

If this ecu works on your car flawlessly, then you know the ecu is still possibly at fault. IF you want further confirmation, you can stick the power fc in the post to me, I'll stick it on my car to see if I'm getting the same problems ??! See Ryan for a reference !!

This way we can drill down the problem straightaway if its the ecu....

Cheers
JJ

[jimGTS]

Franks old car, rev5 converted tubby, cosmosblue.
Any it's new owner is close to me, and popping down today. Very nice chap.
That cars got a powerfc on there.

So I'm going to borrow that to see if it does the same thing. And I'll pop on my ecu onto that car to.

Hopefully this will tell me something.

Is it ok just to match injector size via the commander? Just to test idle and revving???

My wastegate spring is about 12psi. But it would be very useful to borrow that ecu if it's not in use. If I don't find out what's up today. Very kind of you to offer.

[JJ]

Franks old car running the stock 540s ?

If thats the case :

540's are 63.52 % of the 850's

The ratio is taken away from 100% = 36.48%

Cosmosblue
Sticking your ecu on cosmosblue, in the power FC commander, goto settings > injection correction and crank it up to 1.3648 ... as you need to introduce more time for the injector opening ( taken away from your 850s initially )

Yours
Stick his ecu on yours, reduce the correction to 0.6352 - his map shows injector timings opening longer ( due to 540s ), so you need to remove the time from the map to fire your large injectors.

This is only a crude mathmatical calc to get the cars up and running as percentages are too generalised / vague to real world engine running.

Both when disconnected will revert back to its original setting, the injector correction will reset back to the original stored map....ignition off/ on... there will be no permanent adjustment.

"My wastegate spring is about 12psi. But it would be very useful to borrow that ecu if it's not in use. If I don't find out what's up today. Very kind of you to offer."

Not a problem...let me know... ... Its my "backup" ecu should I have any issues with the programmable.

[jimGTS]

I think he's running sard 800s!

Where's this correction factor???


I thought all I needed to do was match the injector percentage??

In my commande I have
55% 0.1
56.
56
55

and idle at
1400
1400
1400


?????

[jimGTS]

So next I needed to test out my powerfc to another one.
So BIG THANKS for tonylefrog from the OC for popping around yesturday with his purple rev5.
Nice to know members are willing to help out on such occasions.
And had a good chat in the pub afterwards.

I spent a little while swapping over the ecus and testing his powerfc on my car, and my powerfc on his.
Seems pretty conclusive that his ran a hell of alot better than my one. Even tho we got different maps, I tweaked the injector correction value to match injector sizes, but thats all, and his ecu sounded and felt much better. And did not missfire on my car, or die when I let the revs drop like my ecu.

I tested my rev3 ecu previous as well, and that sounded fine and didn't die when revving either.

Tested my powerfc on Tonys and the car didn't run great at all. Popped his back on, all fine.

I'm thinking maybe the injector driver is busted on the ecu?

Here's some vids i thought I'd take

first one, this is my powerfc, clearly missing on a cylinder of some sorts
(I'm guessing it must not be firing one of the injectors)


next Tonys powerfc, sounds pretty different and sounded sweet to me.

[Blacklightning66]

been looking at this thread for days.

the problem is no doubt going to be something simple.

from a diagnostic point.

you plug a Rev 3 ecu on and the car is ok - this means that all sensors are fine, dizzy is fine , coil is fine, cap a rota is fine, ignitors fine, knock sensor fine, water temp sensor fine , lambda probe fine, fuel pump fine, TPS,ISV etc fine.


When you plug the PFC in, it dies as you rev it. conclusions, bad map, duff PFC, PVC wiring fault or PFC not getting info from all sensors, or how ever it picks up the engine timing ( crank position sensor??)

if you can drive it on the Rev 3 ecu, then why dont you just book it in with the guy that mapped it/ expert with the PFC and let him take a look.

[jimGTS]

because its not sensible to drive around on a stock ecu when im running 850s and have the resistor pack bypassed.
plus due to my cams, and there setup, it struggles to idle at 750rpm (like a stock ecu would want to).

as ive updated already, ive tried another powerFC!
granted a different map, but ran just as well as the rev3 ecu, in terms of idle and revving.

would not be happy driving on a stock ecu for a 2-3hour round trip to my mappers to be told 2minutes in, the ecu is dead.
for that sort of period of time on a stock ecu, could cause untold damage.

[JJ]

Where's this correction factor???

Sorry Jim, been a tad busy...

In setting, there should be IGJ / IGN in the menu, its on the right hand side of ther screen.

I know its too late now, but this is where you should have adjusted the injector corrections from .. not percentage on each injector. .. those values I stuck up there ^^^ are therabouts...

Jim, have you got an adjustable fuel pressure regulator ??!

Tested my powerfc on Tonys and the car didn't run great at all. Popped his back on, all fine.

Did it sound like it was running on 3 ???

[Blacklightning66]

sounds like the PFC is goosed then, can you not get another one and download your cars map to it?

or refit the 550s and undo the bypass and use it with the rev 3 ecu for now (if your desperate for a car)

[jimGTS]

Where's this correction factor???

Sorry Jim, been a tad busy...

In setting, there should be IGJ / IGN in the menu, its on the right hand side of ther screen.

I know its too late now, but this is where you should have adjusted the injector corrections from .. not percentage on each injector. .. those values I stuck up there ^^^ are therabouts...

Jim, have you got an adjustable fuel pressure regulator ??!

Tested my powerfc on Tonys and the car didn't run great at all. Popped his back on, all fine.

Did it sound like it was running on 3 ???

dont worry, i worked it all out and found it, lol
its was at 1.000, and i just up and down the values to match our injector sizes...
tho being so similar, 6% out or so, wouldnt have made a great deal of difference, but i put in the values anyway going by the way you worked out the 540/850 method in your post.

yep, defo sounded crap and on 3 on tonys car, i didnt run it for long on his car, naturally, but defo sounded odd, and did die on me and sounded missfiry.


i dont have an adjustable FPR...
got a stock one.



Blacklightning66
technically, i could, alot of grief tho.
and sure, i could get hold of another powerFC and get someone to transfer the maps over.
car is only a weekend car, but i do like to use it when i can.