Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Discussion and technical advice for 84-89 AW10 & AW11 MR2. 3A-LU, 4A-GE, 4A-GZE.

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Scarface GTti

Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by Scarface GTti »

Firstly would there be any benefit? More beneficial to have throttle bodies i know, but that would be a lot more money. So i guess for carbs and throttle bodies what would be involved? Obviously an inlet manifold and the carbs or throttle bodies. Throttle bodies would require extra management in the form of? Does the original fuel pump supply too high a pressure? Would that need to be swapped? Would the original ECU need to be tricked to allow carbs or throttle bodies to run? 4AGE is such a pretty engine, it would look ace on carbs and imagine the noise right behind your head!
MegatronUK

Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by MegatronUK »

With a decent manifold (trying to fit them in behind the bulkhead would be the biggest problem IMO) I see no reason why a set of 40 DCOE's or DHLA's wouldn't work well on the 4AGE. RAW Engineering and plenty of kit car builders do exactly that.

I guess the best route would eb something like an M3D or Omex 3d ignition-only ecu to take care of the timing and ignition curve. However, if you're a cheapskate like me :wink: then you can probably get round that by getting the distributor modified to run with a simple hall effect sensor, spark amplifier and a standalone coilpack. It won't be as tuneable as a dedicated ignition ecu, but it should work well enough. That's exactly what we did on the Escort to ditch the vauxhall injection system and ecu, to run the big rorty 45's :D

Want to know the biggest cost involved in all of this? It will be buying the jets, chokes, idles, seals and service kits for the carbs to spec them up to the right settings for the 4AGE!

Gotta agree; can't beat the sound of twin (or triple, or quad!) sidedraughts on an engine at full chat! :mrgreen:

PS. Just to add an idea... get a set of pretty agressive cams, ditch the TVIS and it would be a hell of a trackday screamer!
kevin..in
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by kevin..in »

Scarface GTti

Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by Scarface GTti »

Father-in-laws race car sounds awesome on twin 40`s. I don`t want to run before i can walk but i`ve done a count up today of his carb to car ratio and there is a spare set of 40`s :twisted:
Good link. That`ll give me some reading to do tonight.
firstmk1
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by firstmk1 »

I'm sure tonigmr2 said she would be breaking a carbed mk1 soon. Maybe that would be the best way to get the parts.
firstmk1
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by firstmk1 »

Scarface GTti

Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by Scarface GTti »

Excellent, thankyou.
John R
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by John R »

Hello All

I've had these pics for a while, came via e.mail so I can't add to many details.

Image

Image

Top one just makes me want to get the pressure washer out......... :?

John
User avatar
Lauren
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by Lauren »

Only PITA with carbs is finding somewhere that can set them up and jet them properly. When i had carbs 15 years ago it was hard enough, i don't suppose it'd be any easiier now.

I am sure you can do it, i've driven a carb'd MK1 race car on track and that was pretty good apart from the stupidly heavy throttle, no doubt due to a very poor linkage.

I'd say throttle bodies are definately teh way to go. Don't OMEX do a set for £1500 all in?
2020 GR Yaris - Circuit Pack :lover:
foxy red

Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by foxy red »

hi gang i had and was a huge X1/9 fan owned them for around 8yrs , point is i had an engine, with head, cam , 4 branch tubular manifold etc , and most importantly a set of weber twin 40s ! the noise was ace best ive ever experienced and only inches behind the ear and on over run the poops and gurgles wow !! realise the fiat is frowned upon but carbs behind the ears are special it was even beta than the UNO TURBO CONVERSION that i did later , but it was a costly conversion especially buying parts new but worth while =D>
MegatronUK

Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by MegatronUK »

Lauren wrote:I'd say throttle bodies are definately the way to go. Don't OMEX do a set for £1500 all in?


Pfff! If you want to spend literally ten times as much money as it would cost for a carb set, yeah....

Find yourself a suitable manifold (DHLA's and DCOE's both fit the same manifolds), grab a couple of decent looking DCOE/DHLA 40's from ebay and then buy the jets and chokes to suit them. Getting a custom ignition system together is pretty cheap too; hang out on the kit car sites and see what the 4AGE users are doing.

All in you could have everything you need for well under £500. Carbs are easy to DIY install, too. Any decent old-school tuner should be able to get them set up in a couple of hours... those who know their stuff can even do it by ear, or with the aid of a push-on flow monitor.
LimeyMk1
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by LimeyMk1 »

Why not just go with throttle bodies from a bike? Then you can keep the control of EFI, or get a set of nackered carbs and keep your stock fuel injection system, means you don't have to retune the carbs every 5 seconds! :D

Biggest headache IMO would be the manifold.
JMR_AW11
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by JMR_AW11 »

I think most owners would end up disapppointed with carbs on a street MR2.

The carbs would need tweaking as the seasons change, also I very much doubt you will get the same mid range torque or sweet low speed running as you will with a programmable EFI system.

How is it going to drive on a cold foggy morning with condensation everywhere? (chug, chug, burble.... stall?) Will it start if the temperature is -10degC?

Welcome to the world of carb icing, dodgy chokes, poor throttle response and poor fuel economy.

You guys need to take off the rose tinted glasses about carbs and realise this is the 21st century.

Leave carbs to the hard up racers who can't (won't?) afford modern technology.

PS What are you going to do for a rev limiter?
Matt_J
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I've run one and would go Throttle bodies to be honest.

Post by Matt_J »

I've owned a carb'd race mk1 which used twin Dellorto 45's - Lauren drove it when it was owned by its previous owner, the stiff throttle was due to the p1$$ poor cable and linkage setup that was made out of bits of scrap metal, it was much better with a decent twin pull linkage.

It had a Raw Trac pack 2 engine fitted and made 170bhp. It was great in terms of the sound, but the driveability wasn't too clever. That was using an Omex mapped ignition and Twin coils etc.

The original map was terrible below 3000rpm as the carbs were giving miles too much fuel so we put in masses of advance. This made it much more driveable, but the throttle response was never that clean.

It was a real pain to start from cold and not great if it got too hot in traffic or waiting on the grid.

As such I would definately recommend Throttle bodies over carbs just for the fact that you can map them for cold start and driveability generally.

If you are doing a carb setup, you need to disconnect the stock fuel pump, fit a Facet or similar low pressure pump and regulator. Carb's run at 4 or 5psi and the FI pump in the tank will deliver 30+psi.

Both TB's or carbs are a tight fit in the mk1 especially by the time you've got reasonable length trumpets and filters on, but will just about fit. Ideally you would cut the firewall and use the boot area as an airbox though. The brake vacumn was done using a tap off one of the injector ports while the others were sealed up using large grub screws.

One major point though is that carbs and Throttle bodies are only worth the trip if you are changing cams, fitting them without doing so will gain you next to nothing.

Matt J..

www.team-dandism.co.uk
tonigmr2
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by tonigmr2 »

What Matt said!

The MK1 I have has twin webber 45s on I believe - sounds awesome but I never got it set up right. I will be breaking it at some point but it's not for the faint hearted!
T
LimeyMk1
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by LimeyMk1 »

If you're removing the carbs and manifold Toni can I have some pics of the manifold? I may be interested in buying the manifold.
tonigmr2
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by tonigmr2 »

TBH Chris I won't dismantle the setup from the engine, it looks far too scarey. I'll sell the whole kit and caboodle as one lump.
T
LimeyMk1
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by LimeyMk1 »

Sod! Not interested in carbs but it'd be nice to know if I could adapt the manifold to take bike throttle bodies. :twisted:

Cheers
MegatronUK

Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by MegatronUK »

It's all true... but I still say do it! :mrgreen:
luthor1
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Re: Running a Mk1 on carbs?

Post by luthor1 »

272 duration cams, 8mm lift, omex 600 mappable ECU, gut the T-VIS, verniers, high comp head gasket, 170bhp. No head work required.

Job done!
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