2ZZ-GE, is it worth?

[aguiloco]

Hi, my original 1ZZ has done close to 200k miles, still runs smooth but is burning oil for a long time. I treat it well so maybe it could last a lot more miles but I'm thinking about a engine swap.

I like the idea of the 2ZZ-GE but also have some questions.

About power output, I found this graph on the web where you can see that the output is almost the same until the 2ZZ reach 6000RPM and give you that extra bang.



Is the feel of the engine like the graph where you dont notice the difference between the 1ZZ and the 2ZZ until you pass 6000RPM? Before the MR2 I had a Mazda MX-3 and made an engine swap from a 1.8 V6 to JDM 2.5 V6, the car whas very different and so much more fun to drive, I´m afraid of swaping my engine now and feel dissapointed.

I'm concerned about fuel economy, I think in every day driving it should be similar, I can do a bit more than 380 miles with one tank now.

Will it work fine with my 5 speed manual transmission? I like it and I changed some bearings and clutch months ago, is in great shape.

If I do the swap I want it simple, so it would be the stock ECU for the 2ZZ and minimum parts to make it work on the MR2 closest to factory specifications.

Would be great to hear opinions.

Thanks.

[MilesH]

The swap is fairly simple and if you're using the standard 2zz ECU fuel consumption won't change much (in my experience).

It would work with the 5 speed gearbox BUT the ratios are all wrong for keeping the car in lift and you will loose a lot of the reason why you want to change the engine in the first place. The factory 2zz box is much more suited to the engine.

As for whether it being worth it. It is not a huge jump in performance terms and as the graph you put up shows the gains are at the top end so unless you plan to track the car (where you will feel a noticeable difference in performance at the top end) or if you like to rev the nuts off the car on road then the difference will not be huge.

I found that fitting an aftermarket ECU to a 2zz you can get noticeable gains lower down over that of a 1zz, but with the standard 2zz ECU they are indeed very similar.

Hope that helps

p.s. I have one in a track car and it is a definite improvement.

[aussieGT]

It is worth.

[aguiloco]

It would work with the 5 speed gearbox BUT the ratios are all wrong for keeping the car in lift and you will loose a lot of the reason why you want to change the engine in the first place. The factory 2zz box is much more suited to the engine.

What do you mean about the ratios?

[2mad]

Speak to Paul at woodsport ... he will tell you everything you want to know and sh/t loads you didnt think of

[MilesH]

It would work with the 5 speed gearbox BUT the ratios are all wrong for keeping the car in lift and you will loose a lot of the reason why you want to change the engine in the first place. The factory 2zz box is much more suited to the engine.

What do you mean about the ratios?

The 2zz celica/corolla box is closer ratio so keeps the revs higher when changing gear allowing it to stay near to/in lift and therefore quicker.

[androo007]

I had the celica 190, awful engine IMHO worst I've ever owned. No grunt I wouldn't bother.

[Ekona]

You're wrong. Hate it break it to you like that, soz.

190bhp in a car that weighs 990kg is plenty quick enough.

[androo007]

So you've owned a car with that engine in then? Driven it every day? How comes you turbo converter the current one then?

[Charged]

I had the celica 190, awful engine IMHO worst I've ever owned. No grunt I wouldn't bother.

I beg to differ. I'm on my second Corolla T Sport (VVTLI) and I like it. Sure below 6200 rpm it's completely gutless but keep it in the power band and it flys. I give it death every day, country lane blaster and it never grumbles. Cost me £700. My previous Corolla is owned by the sister in law and has done 145k. If I wasn't used to 300bhp in my mk1, I would consider this a great swap engine.

EDIT. Just to clarify that the Corolla T Sport engine is great BUT the drive is awful. Understeery, wheel-spinny wallowy mess describes it well, it is also geared poorly in terms of sitting at 80mph with the engine revving higher than it should, but still nowhere near the power band. Other than that it's comfy and understated, the boys at work though it was a 1.4 granny car : )

[Ekona]

So you've owned a car with that engine in then? Driven it every day? How comes you turbo converter the current one then?

I've driven both MR2s and Elises with that engine in. I went for a turbo conversion because it was cheaper at that particular time. The Yamaha lump is a cracking engine, it just needs understanding of how to best use a high revving NA engine.

You cannot be telling me that a car with that power to weight ratio isn't plenty enough for both road and track, especially in such a splendid chassis as the mk3 has.

[androo007]

Sure, I've no quibble with the chassis of a mk3, but as an engine I found it day to day not really enjoyable to drive fast....just harsh loud and quite hard work as the power band is so small and screaming it's head off. Would I spend money and hassle to convert it? Personally not (having driven the 140 and 190).

I guess everyone will have different opinions and if you enjoyed it for the brief time you drove it great, but my opinion of driving for 9 months wasn't so favourable.

Just giving my opinion - always good to hear both sides rather than flat out telling someone with more experience they're 'wrong'

[aguiloco]

Seems like there is a bit of a debate on the matter. I get that the 2ZZ engine isn't too different than the 1ZZ in normal usage, you need to get to the track or be a bit of a maniac to use the full potential on the streets.

Personally since my engine has so many miles on it and is my daily driver I never rev it up to the redline, I found that driving it under 5K RPM is enough to have a good time in the twisty roads. I would have to learn how to drive it again using the full potential of the 2ZZ, maybe a track day would be the best option in order to find the limits, never been before.

I will have to replace the engine at one time and the 2ZZ could be a good option, easy on the daily comute but fast if you need it, it would cost me triple the price but I got the car cheap anyway.

I found this seller on ebay, any knoledge about him?

http://www.ebay.es/itm/301924055152?eui ... 68af9&cp=1

Also I have another doubt about the gearbox, this seller is offering a C64-4 from the T Sport, does this gearbox has LSD? My 5 speed comes with torsen and I like it, even when it destroys my rear tires...

[MilesH]

The seller (sam) is a decent chap and known in Mk3 circles.

As for the gearbox, no the T-Sport (or celica) gearboxes are not fitted with a LSD, you need to transfer the one from your current 1zz box.

Are you going to do the swap yourself or get a garage to do it? If you are considering a garage I would highly recommended Patrick Chambers (username - headcase on here).

Hope that helps.

p.s. where are you located?

[aguiloco]

I wrote the seller some days ago but still hasn't reply, maybe he is bussy or something.

If the 5 speed LSD will fit the 6 speed there is no problem, I have some experience with the gearbox.

I'm from Spain and I will do the swap by myself, thanks for the recomendation anyway.

[raptor95GTS]

40 extra horses at the top end is definitely worth it I'd say

[excalibur1814]

By the time you've purchased the engine, fitted the thing, found any issues, you might as well have purchased a Porsche Boxster.

[LouisePiggin]

By the time you've purchased the engine, fitted the thing, found any issues, you might as well have purchased a Porsche Boxster.

But then you'd have a Boxster

[Ekona]

Indeed. Having a significantly better car can never be a bad thing.

[LouisePiggin]

Indeed. Having a significantly better car can never be a bad thing.