limits of a 3sgte

[Mattackers]

hi,
i was wondering what the limits of the 3sgte are without opening the block up and forging? so... if you had a really efficient fuel system, standalone ecu, big injectors, bigger turbo. what could the internals take if detonation could be kept at bay?
food for thought??????

matt

[KarlBristol]

Very difficult question to answer especially as no two engines are identical...
As far as I am aware there is no set upper limit, it generally depends on how much people are willing to push their engines and risk.

The way I see it, it depends mainly on how long you want the engine to last for.

Are you talking about pushing the engine within reasonably safe boundaries and using it for an extended period of time or pushing it beyond what the manufacturer would suggest in order to gain high BHP figures and impacting on the longevity of its lifespan? The more you push the engine without forging etc... the more it will impact on how long the engine will last before it goes pop.

Out of interest if this is your car your thinking of doing modifications to, and if so what's the condition of the engine? Has it been regularly maintained etc... Or are you just speaking in generalities out of interest?

[Al-sw20]

The old Hyde MR2 turbo ran 11.1 @ 123mph and made 440 rear wheel horsepower on a stock bottom end 3SGTE which had over 200,000 miles on it.

BTW Karl when are you moving to New Zealand?

[DAN_REV1_TURBO]

Running approx. 300bhp but has been very very occasional use over the last two years with mine, don`t tend to drive it hard most of the time when I do have it. Similar mods to what you describe, hybrid turbo, bigger injectors, standalone ecu, rev3 conversion/headgasket etc etc. I will be going forged over this coming winter before I dare to push for more power.

There is a guy on here TurboNoz who was pushing his engine as much as he could I think he does his own mapping/does it for a living, I don't know if it ever went bang or how many miles he did with it but that was over 400 horses I think.

[Mattackers]

well i have been busy recently trying to turn the car into a track car. I have installed a rev 2 3sgte into a celica st202, i have installed a rev 3 head gasket, serviced the engine, 60mm alloy radiator, massive FMIC, AEM FIC piggyback ecu mapped by Jdmodified, 40 litre fuel cell, 305lph fuel pump, 540cc rev 3 injectors, bored out 8mm fuel rail, 6an braided fuel lines throughout, d1 spec adjustable FPR, STAGE 2 hybrid turbo, 2.5" exhaust system, CAI, cobra monaco pro bucket seats, trs harnesses, helix stage 3 clutch, just want more power without opening up the block.





It's a celica st202 by the way

[Mattackers]

[Al-sw20]

You will need a real turbo and fuel system to start with.

[Mike N]

old 540's are not large enough or safe enough to get beyond 350

change your injectors to 800cc, since you will have to remap for the fuel pump anyway, the rest (if the turbo is suitable) could bring 420+ on a speed density set up.

later I would go 3" on the entire exhaust.

which st 2 turbo are you using?

[bobhatton]

hi,
i was wondering what the limits of the 3sgte are without opening the block up and forging? so... if you had a really efficient fuel system, standalone ecu, big injectors, bigger turbo. what could the internals take if detonation could be kept at bay?
food for thought??????

matt

How would you stop detonation?

[Mattackers]

That's what I'm asking bob, mapping it well to keep temps spot on, I always run shell vpower or nitro what ever its called now. I guess water injection would be next.
I'm running a ct20b stage 2 turbo. The afr's are still rich at 17psi (10.8 ) and the injectors are maxing out at 83 %.
The aem ecu has deleted the AFM and it now runs a speed density system.

[Mattackers]

So bob I have been doing a bit of research and it seems the best way to reduce or prevent detonation is to install water/meth progressive kit. This means I can raise the boost and advance ignition without det occurring? Is this correct?
If it is right how much power could I achieve do you think? I'm not chasing figures, but want good power and reliability. My engine has excellent compression readings, great leak down readings and when I changed the head gasket the pistons looked almost brand new.
Matt

[bobhatton]

So bob I have been doing a bit of research and it seems the best way to reduce or prevent detonation is to install water/meth progressive kit. This means I can raise the boost and advance ignition without det occurring? Is this correct?
If it is right how much power could I achieve do you think? I'm not chasing figures, but want good power and reliability. My engine has excellent compression readings, great leak down readings and when I changed the head gasket the pistons looked almost brand new.
Matt

Yes water injection will let you run more boost, but the injectors should be fitted in each manifold runner as close to the head as you can get them.

Try to run as much ignition advance as you can, max should be around 38 deg including the static 10 deg

[Mattackers]

Is anyone running water/meth injection on here?
So you are talking about direct port injection bob? Would that mean jst t'ing of 4 ways and having one controller.

[gtech]

Is anyone running water/meth injection on here?
.

Both "Tubby_Tony" and I are running DevilsOwn Water/Meth injection. This has its own electronic progressive controller, that allows us to dictate at what point in the boost range it starts injecting, and then at what boost level its on max flow.

Excellent bit of kit, with superb results. Tony runs his alongside his PowerFC, but it is NOT mapped with the PowerFC, its there as a safety feature. Currently running 50/50 mix.

HTH

[Mattackers]

Strange that because that's the exact system I was looking at last night. It does look good and high quality. Where have you guys put the spray?

[tubby_tony]

You can see mine mounted in the post intercooler hard pipe approx 1 to 2 inches from the clamp.

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... e_id=19425.

The pump and tank are mounted in the boot.

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... e_id=19429.

And the controller on the steering column

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... e_id=19426.

I think gtech is running pre-turbo also.

[Mattackers]

Well I am a little gutted now as I've found out the aem fic only allows ignition timing reduction not advance. Is it still worth getting a water meth kit installed?

[gtech]

Is it still worth getting a water meth kit installed?

I would say definately, although Tony runs PowerFC, I currently run the standard Rev 3 ECU, I see superb temp drops between pre and post IC, more so in the summer when the outside temps are a lot higher.

You get that Oommph on tap, that you get on a chrisp morning

[Mattackers]

So after all your advice I've ordered an AEM water/meth kit. It's got the new type pump. This is just for safety and a little performance gain. Any advice guys?