Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Discussion and technical advice the SW20 MR2. 3S-GTE, 3S-GE, 3S-FE etc
Anything and everything to do with maintenance, modifications and electrical is in here for the Mk2.

Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members

moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

hi,

i fitted a MBC, ball and spring.

It wasn't working well, i disabled vsv and blocked it off but it wouldn't go past 10 psi.

Today i stretched the spring and took it out again.

It still wasn't going past 10 psi the first few times and was taking ages to make boost.

THEN!

I took off from some light and floored it in 2nd, and BOOM, WARP SPEED. I was thinking what the hell was that and look down and I hit 20 psi.

So i didn't put my foot down again, gonna have to turn it down.

But, now it was making boost so fast, like a new machine.

Any ideas?

Maybe the wastgate was open a little? Stock ct26 on rev 1 turbo.

Or afm not opening fully so under fueling?

Odd.
MR2 Rich
Posts: 1582
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Harrogate North Yorkshire

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by MR2 Rich »

20 psi and a Rev1 Ct26 sounds like a recipe for disaster get it turned down. :thumleft:
No 2 :(
RST
Posts: 2891
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: Inverness, Scotland

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by RST »

Today i stretched the spring and took it out again.


...should you be stretching springs? They're normally set for a reason?
RikH77
Posts: 1407
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:39 pm
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by RikH77 »

ct26 + 20psi = BOOM :eye:
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

RikH77 wrote:ct26 + 20psi = BOOM :eye:


haha yeah.

I guess i was lucky.

It was only for 1-2 seconds

Although, Turbonoz ran:

"1.4 bar on a CT26 on stock 440s on a stock ECU with very good fueling, base ign on 8°BTDC "

and was fine. My intercooler pipes are quite warm though. SO not sure my air temps are low enough.

I only want to run 14 psi.
Last edited by moscoworbust on Sun May 05, 2013 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

RST wrote:
Today i stretched the spring and took it out again.


...should you be stretching springs? They're normally set for a reason?


No, this was as advised by GTS chris and is totally logical.

Go and have a look at how they work and you will see.

"With ball-and-spring types, a spring-loaded ball is used to block this delivered boost "signal", until the desired boost level is attained. It is at this point, that the delivered boost pressure is strong enough to push the spring-loaded ball toward the spring and out of it's seat, allowing the signal to pass, and reach the Wastegate Actuator. The boost pressure then presses against the Wastegate Actuator's diaphragm, causing its arm to move, so that the Wastegate is opened. The opened Wastegate then allows the exhaust gases to divert away from the spinning turbine, thus preventing the turbo from boosting higher than the desired level.

The MBC is adjusted by turning a knob (or other adjustor), which varies the load on the spring inside the MBC. By adjusting it so there is more load on the spring, you are 'raising the boost" because more boost pressure is required to move the ball off its seat before the signal can pass to the Wastegate Actuator. By contrast, lessening the load on the spring allows the boost signal to more easily unseat the ball and continue on its voyage to the Wastegate Actuator, so by backing the adjustor away from the spring, you are "lowering the boost". The Joe P MBC, and all Hallman Manual Boost Controllers, are ball-and-spring type MBCs. "
RST
Posts: 2891
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:02 pm
Location: Inverness, Scotland

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by RST »

hyeaa and your point is what against me asking you stretching a spring with originally "known quantities"?
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

RST wrote:hyeaa and your point is what against me asking you stretching a spring with originally "known quantities"?



There are no marks on it, no settings.

It's just a spring and a ball. More tension = more boost.

It's a pretty simple concept.

I just added an explanation of how they work as I assumed you didn't know.

The fact is made 20psi is fine, it was just set too high.

I want to know what could of changed to not make it make boost a lot quicker. Maybe the wastgate was stuck open a bit before and rectified itself some how. Or maybe it was under fueling. I'm not sure. But i'm happy.

This is the question.
Super_red
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by Super_red »

With my cheap boost controller I found that the coild of the spring were catching on the threads of the bolt that is the adjuster. Once I had it assembled properly I fitted it and set it to 12 psi. My car ahs a weak actuator and an over acting VSV so I was making between 5 and 7 psi, going to 12 (stock) was just as you described, like light speed!
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

Super_red wrote:With my cheap boost controller I found that the coild of the spring were catching on the threads of the bolt that is the adjuster. Once I had it assembled properly I fitted it and set it to 12 psi. My car ahs a weak actuator and an over acting VSV so I was making between 5 and 7 psi, going to 12 (stock) was just as you described, like light speed!


Mine was running 12 psi at stovk with the vsv connected.

It';s gone dowen to 10 now.

I want it at 14.

I'm just confused as to why it was making boost so slowly before and now it makes boost so fast.

Really have no idea.

Even if the spring was sticking it would over boost.

You know what it felt like. Like there was a blockage and suddenly it went away, and it only took a dab of the pedal at 60 in 5th gear to spool up.

So odd.
MR2 Rich
Posts: 1582
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Harrogate North Yorkshire

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by MR2 Rich »

I thought fuel cut off was 12 psi for the Rev1's?
No 2 :(
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

MR2 Rich wrote:I thought fuel cut off was 12 psi for the Rev1's?


can't be.

i disabled that anyway.

Might be the preload on the actuator
MR2 Rich
Posts: 1582
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Harrogate North Yorkshire

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by MR2 Rich »

It's either 12 or 13 psi :thumleft:
No 2 :(
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

turned it down to 18.

I'll turn it down again.

Still unsure why it's so much faster spooling... so weird.


anyone know?
MR2 Rich
Posts: 1582
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Harrogate North Yorkshire

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by MR2 Rich »

What fuel are you using?
No 2 :(
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

MR2 Rich wrote:What fuel are you using?


99 ron.

i was using 95 before,

I heard that the mr2 has different maps for good and bad fuel. Is this true? Would it make that much of a diffference

could this be the difference?
Super_red
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by Super_red »

Spools quicker because of waste gate creep, the ball bearing stops any boost pressure getting to the diaphram before the desired boost is reached. I have mine at 10 not 12, I knew it was stock for a Rev2 but could not remember what stock was!

Not different maps but the knock sensor will help to cater for bad fuel, not perfect though.
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

So, you are saying the stock system is affected by boost creep.

And possibly the ball bearing was initially dislodged and somehow it got ii the right place and is successfully blocking the air now.

And it is all fine.

Why was it at 10 psi before when the MBC was installed and the tvsv diisabled?

Sure;y then it was passing air. but with no MBC it was passing air too.

I mean, it's flipping amazing, it's so so so fast, like incredible. It spools up instantly, and pulls like a train.

I just want an explanation.
Super_red
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by Super_red »

Boost creap is when the wastegate cant flow enough so boost rises when you dont want it to. Actutator creep (or possibly called somehting else) is where the actuator starts to open a little way before the desired boost pressure is reached. A 10 psi actuator will probably start to creep open at 5-6 psi and then be fully open at 10. The ball bearing valve stays shut until 10 then opens up so the actuator does not creep open.

If the ball bearing is adjusted too low then you will get actuator pressure, you cant use an MBC to get less boost than actuator pressure. My guess is it was set too low. Always start low and adjust up (screw in).
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Well 20 psi certainly made a difference!!

Post by moscoworbust »

Super_red wrote:Boost creap is when the wastegate cant flow enough so boost rises when you dont want it to. Actutator creep (or possibly called somehting else) is where the actuator starts to open a little way before the desired boost pressure is reached. A 10 psi actuator will probably start to creep open at 5-6 psi and then be fully open at 10. The ball bearing valve stays shut until 10 then opens up so the actuator does not creep open.

If the ball bearing is adjusted too low then you will get actuator pressure, you cant use an MBC to get less boost than actuator pressure. My guess is it was set too low. Always start low and adjust up (screw in).


Excellent.

So the ball bearing manual boost controller has got rid of the actuator creep.

And now it's making boost faster as none is getting past the wastegate.

It's what I thought.

I didn't realise the actuator suffered from this, all makes sense now.

I wonder why the MBC wasn't functioning correctly to start with. I guess the ball bearing wasn't blocking it correctly but sorted itself out.
Post Reply

Return to “MR2 MK2 1990 - 1999 NA & Turbo”