[All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

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greglebon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by greglebon »

Cool...! 8)

If you're right, I'll put the MS2 P+P on hold then...! :D

Couple of questions, tho....:

1) Where IS this amazing product...??
2) ...and how much is this going to end up costing, retail...?

Now Jeremy posted about this on the SC forum about a year ago originally...

At the time it was merely an interface board, basically replacing the bits left out by Mr.T that enable the read/write functions of the ECU......


Image

Thing is, though, that to add all the extra stuff will require modifications to the actual ECU program....

Its my thinking that this has all got a bit complicated to ACTUALLY deliver a product to market (read "expensive").

As stated, Jeremy has put a lot of time into this, but I think the original idea to make the stock ECU programmable, with logging function was a very reasonable objective....

But over the year, people have been throwing ideas at the poor guy which have escalated things beyond what can reasonably be expected...?

I reckon the project has got on top of JMR: he cannot be expected to work all the hours he puts in for next to nothing, surely...?

Ok...there may be a huge market eagerly anticipating the end result, but maybe its not financially viable.......?

When i started the MS2 project for my car, it seemed fairly straighforward, but there have bee a fair few stumbling block along the way...I'm confident it will run fine on my engine......

However, when I started looking into doing a P+P for the tubby (big potential market, whereas there are only a couple of dozen engines like mine in the country), it soon snowballed into a complex project.....

So, if Jeremy has got snowed under, I know EXACTLY where he's coming from... :wink:
luthor1
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by luthor1 »

Jeremy has disappeared off the face of the earth right now :(

There are messages I sent him in my outbox, which means he has not even logged on to IMOC since I sent them in September!!

Like I said before, if you can create a bracket, and exchange crank pulley, and mount for the HALL sensor, and design where to mount the EDIS-4 module in the engine bay, you can create your plug-n-play Megasquirt system with the awesomely reliable EDIS unit!

I'd be well interestd in that, and I should think a lot of people would.

I believe Jeremy was talking about £400 for his system including the cable and software which is entirely plug-n-play. Unplug old ECU, plug in new one, start car. Then just use the software to map it live on the dyno whenever you like.

Beauty of it is, £400 is easy to find, then mapping later, whereas £850 for LINK is harder to tie down, so you can get your infrastructure setup then just £250 per mapping session which is financially more palatable...
greglebon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by greglebon »

I got a PM from Jeremy today.

As I suspected, it IS only modding parameters and logging.......

So.....to get the ignition and other mods will require LOTS of extra work, and a MS2 setup ultimately offers more........

However, I get the impression that the P+P is finished, so when the time is right, I'm sure Jeremy will return......!

As for making a kit, with bracket, modded pulley, etc,etc....is hardly plug'n'play, is it..?

I'll be using stock sensors: the only possible mod needed will be to disconnect the stock igniter and connect the MS2 coil drivers to whatever ignition coil setup you desire (coil-on-plug or wasted spark).

I'll wait until Jeremy unleashes the end result, and see what public feedback is......meantime, I'll carry on with my GZE setup: there is another version of MS on the horizon, called the Microsquirt Sequencer.
This has 8 injector drivers and 8 coil outputs, plus better i/o options, so implementing it on a 3SGTE will be a lot easier........!
johndgt4
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by johndgt4 »

I like the idea of P+P MS2 ecu's but did Jeremy really think it would be £400 for a mappable std ECU???????

As I have said surely you are better off just plugging in an eManage/Unichip/F-con. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure you can datalog the eManage.

Hmmmm?

Jd
greglebon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by greglebon »

John.

Just read the other post, too.....

According to Jeremy (yesterday!), he has basically added the serial interface hardware and hacked the ECU.

It is therefore possible to adjust the maps, and any of the other settings (if you know what you're doing..!).
You can also datalog ALL the output data from the ECU... :D

The Megasquirt option is a lot more flexible ultimately, but obviously has to replicate most, if not all of the stock ECU's functions.

This is where the difficulty arises as the MS processor simply does not have enough available outputs to achieve this.

Getting a MS2 to RUN a tubby is not a huge problem, based on my experiences this year: you can simply replace / not use some of the features (ie: run batch injection rather than sequential, as MS only has 2 injector drivers...etc).

The BIG problem is making a plug'n'play MS ECU , as this means that you NEED to have all the control / sensors connected and working correctly, and all interfaced to the 22/16/26 AMP connector.......

It IS do-able, but a lot easier would be to strip the GTE engine of all its electrics, idle control, etc, and simply replace everything with MS-style stuff...?

Its a big job, but the rewards could be huge....?

When I've done the GZE over the winter, It's possible I may buy a tubby and give it a go next spring..?.... :twisted:
raptor95GTS
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by raptor95GTS »

or Jeremy gets the help (test mules) he needs and can finish his?
greglebon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by greglebon »

I think the "Stock programmable ECU" subject has got a bit out of hand..?

Sure.... everyone with a tubby would LOVE to be able to send their ECU to Jeremy with £100 and have a MoTeC-style one returned to them that they just plug in and go..... :D

Reality is that the original spec that J started out with is logging and adjustable maps: thats it..!

That is finished, bar the shouting.........of all the other wonderful additions requested by owners over the last year, some are possible, but, in J's words:

"In theory I could add extra features to the code but that would be way off in the future."

I think he's done a fantastic job to achieve what he has.......the Toyota ECU is a very complex beast, especially compared to a Megasquirt, and J's got to the heart of the matter...... :D

As I've already said, adding this and that is a LOT of work: the only real way to do it is to make a piggyback internal board with extra I/O interface, and re-write the ECU program.....
Then you will STILL need to modify the wiring loom: you're getting away from P+P........?

Things take time (and money :wink: ).......everyone seems to want something for nothing these days..?

What sort of monetary value do you put on the R+D thats gone into this already..?

I bet if J worked it out sensibly, he would need to sell his mod for around £300+ just to make it worth his while....?

......and thats to the current stage, without all the "toys"..! :shock:
raptor95GTS
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by raptor95GTS »

I don't believe a price of 100quid was ever mentioned more like 3-400 and on the rev1/2 access to the rev limit, ignition and fuelling was available. The rev3+ ecu has two MMU? chips and as such have not really been worked on. The datalogging was available for all ecu's I think which in itself is mighty handy.

It is however good to know Jeremy is still about as his work is interesting from a pure technical point. I'd have just the datalogger right now so I can see what's going on in the engine :thumleft:
luthor1
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by luthor1 »

Yeah, where is this "£100" idea coming from??

He plugged his ECU into my car, we drove up the road, monitoring *EVERY* aspect of the ECU, down to what map it was reading from, what revs, mph, mpg, whether TVIS was open or closed, there was a knock light there, load and VE, throttle position everything.

Then, he fiddled with a setting and set my rev limiter to 3000rpm. Which worked.

Then he showed me the numbers in the code for where the ignition timing is read from, and the numbers which represent how much fuel is being delivered at any given time.

There was even a box which indicated that the injectors were 440cc.

I think you should be careful how you talk-down this product, since I have actually driven it.
greglebon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by greglebon »

Mate, I'm not "talking it down" at all......!

You're one of the lucky few who have actually driven it: what you describe is as I said, a logging / monitoring mod which enables you to alter the maps.....

The £100 was, I think, a fair price to pay for monitoring / logging / mapping the stock system..?
After all, it is all the stock electronics, so you're not really buying much hardware, are you...?

If you're now talking £300-400, then we're almost in standalone territory?

My very conservative MS2-based ballpark figure was around the £500 mark, anyway...and that would (hypothetically) give 100% control over EVERYTHING, and the ability to easily upgrade / change hardware configs, etc.....

Questions are: are you guys prepared to pay £400 for the stock version, and will Jeremy put it into production.....?

I love the idea of putting a daughter board into a Mr.T ECU and unleashing the beast, so to speak..... :twisted: (and I mean real HARDWARE mods: launch control, boost control, COP,etc...!)

...but in reality, it will need shedloads of work....... :?

The specs for the MS3 are currently being discussed in depth, and the main problem is that everyone chips in with their particular dream / requirement, etc....

Until a firm spec is decided upon, it is difficult to actually produce anything.......

This, I fear, is what has happened with Jeremy: he has become snowed under with desired additions...?

Who knows: as the end result / product is the same, I may even suggest to Jeremy that we pool our resources in the new year and aim to get it all done for Xmas 2008.......? :D
raptor95GTS
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by raptor95GTS »

if you can alter the maps then can adjust the spark timing and fuelling curves + the data logging too. It will still have ALL the protection of the std ECU (if it can control the ecu controlled VSV on the rev3+) and all the little bits of code that allow good cold idling. 400quid for that, hell yes. Esp since I'll be able to wait til I have the money to get it mapped. It's std til then so it will run fine unlike any other ECU you buy.

Launch control, er I don't drag race so not an issue and where can I buy a standalone unit for 400quid?

These options are great for us for aftermarket controllers so more choices the better.
luthor1
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by luthor1 »

So we can choose when the spark fires, and choose how much fuel goes in at any given time, adjust how the car copes with knock, atmospheric changes, alter boost limit, alter rev limit...

Mate, you are talking it down.

I think Allan and I agree on it.

It's also fully sequential fueling.
greglebon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by greglebon »

Fine...but it is only 2 opinions we have here.....?

Knock...? Well, if the engine is tuned right, then you wont get any ... :D

As for Seq inj...thats of little or no use to tuning / big BHP's: its purely for emissions and idle......

When you start considering XTau, the amount of fuel required per cycle, and the time it has got to inject it, the injector will be firing into a closed valve at high revs anyway.......

But I digress.....! :roll:

Everyones needs are different, so the proof of the cake is only going to be seen when 20-odd people are running J's ECU.....?

In the meantime, its all speculation (including the MS2 P+P project!)

As for talking it down, surely my statement to join forces with J is anything but.... ](*,)
raptor95GTS
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Re: [All] [Generic] Plug 'n' play Megasquirt 2 Extra 2.0, anyone...??

Post by raptor95GTS »

greglebon - sometimes when folks post on here with a money making idea they come across differently than they mean too. I certainly got the impression you were putting down Jeremy's unit esp when you kept using the word merely. Now you've explained you didn't mean to er knock the system it's all cool in IMOC land.

In an ideal world you'd never get knock but we live in a far from ideal world so you still need knock protection.

Sadly I have a rev3+ unit so Jeremy's ECU is not even started for work on mine.
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