[Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

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Steve Horrocks
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Steve Horrocks »

Harry wrote:Steve also has the Radtec and T67 Greddy If memory serves and gets around the 450-500 power mark at 1.7 bar. Incidentally he has Mark's previous:-Nightspirit engine fully sorted It Is smooth as silk and tight pulls beautifully. http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii30 ... 9cba09.pbr


Hazza, who is this Steve fella?
476bhp & 415ft lb @ 1.9bar Magic by Ryan!
Gone, but never forgotten
Now with a mk1.5 & a NHB EP3
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Steve Horrocks wrote:

Hazza, who is this Steve fella?


http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/profile.ph ... ile&u=7588

Possibly? his car looks an awful lot like Harry's :?:
Bender Unit
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Bender Unit »

So, there is my dilemma. The most puzzling thing for me is why the peak torque has dropped from 316 @ 6005 to 307 @ 4647 - why does the peak come in so much lower in rpm? A couple of comments received so far suggest that the cam timing is out. I'm not really sure what this means so any pointers there are welcome (it has HKS 264 cams I believe).


If the cam timing hasnt been adjusted then you could be losing a good about of power. Do you know what settings they have been set too? IIRC the HKS settings they suggest are rubbish. On another note thats why mine was making little power - the cams were on the p1$$ and its not something I have bothered to set up, since getting the car. the tester advised it would be costing me alot of power due to how they have been set up.

But then if they havent been touched then why the drop?

Different rolling roads with different operators will give wildly different figures. The comparison is, unfortunately, absolutely worthless.


Have to disagree to some degree as the 86's that ran are near identical matches to another mates 86 that was tested hundreds of miles away on a different set of rollers. Unless they have done something wrong they wont be massivley out.

As Nick says different rollers dont equate to 100 bhp differences. 10 / 20 maybe but not 100bhp!

Went back to the RR today and still no joy. I replaced dist. cap, leads, rotor and plugs yesterday - did an oil/filter change at the same time. Drives smoother on the road but still down on power.


Possibly coil pack / igniter? Had some weird running issues with mine recently, culprit was the igniter which gave good running one moment then flat running the next. Also had random starting issues (lots of cranking) and hovering revs (circa 4k) but not down to a stuck throttle.

Hi mate, I did a compression test a couple of months ago as I was getting oil in the intake pipe. Results were 175/172/175/175 [ http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91349 ]. Always worth another test this weekend I guess. I changed the oil yesterday, there is no mayo anywhere and the oil looked good.


Did you do it will all plugs removed mate, just incase there is a breach between 2 cylinders? This way if there is you will see the pressure drop.

But I dont suspect its that.

Also when you car was running I dont recall seeing any blow by, bad smells or smoke. Will try and hook my video up mate and check your run, as I was at the back of the car so something might be visable. Smelled nice and clean, if a little rich maybe?


Stick with it mate, going to be something silly, always is!


Cheers

James
Ryan.g
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Ryan.g »

This is Steve's car, One of the cleanest Mr2's i have worked on.

http://mr2oc.co.uk/ForumsPro/viewtopic/ ... =ryan.html

Nick, If you have oil contamanation in the intake system then this lowers the octane level of the mixture resulting in the amount of timing being limited. A good breather system will help this but it is best to find where the oil is coming from.

Have worked on many cars where this is the issue. 9/10 its the turbo and when changed out, has enabled more timing to be ran and more power is made.


Ryan


Jimgts had this same problem which is spotted a while back
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Bender Unit wrote:

Possibly coil pack / igniter? Had some weird running issues with mine recently, culprit was the igniter which gave good running one moment then flat running the next. Also had random starting issues (lots of cranking) and hovering revs (circa 4k) but not down to a stuck throttle.



Aha - that would make sense. In fact, Paul asked me whether I still had the standard/original one on today. I said that I figured it did but he didn't elaborate. Might explain the random engine cut-out too :-k

Bender Unit wrote:
Also when you car was running I dont recall seeing any blow by, bad smells or smoke. Will try and hook my video up mate and check your run, as I was at the back of the car so something might be visable. Smelled nice and clean, if a little rich maybe? Stick with it mate, going to be something silly, always is!


There was a bit of smoke but not silly amounts. You can see it on the hi-res version of the video I posted on eight-six. I will stick with it - I want the scary factor back :D

Ryan.g wrote:
Nick, If you have oil contamanation in the intake system then this lowers the octane level of the mixture resulting in the amount of timing being limited. A good breather system will help this but it is best to find where the oil is coming from.


Yes, I was also thinking this when pondering today. AFAIK the oil comes from leaking turbo seals as I see it in the intake pipe even with the PCV pipe disconnected. Can't see where else it would be coming from.

So.. replace igniter / coil pack? I'm not even sure where that lives :lol: I'm guessing it's the thing that the distributor king lead plugs in to :?: Can you buy uprated ones?

I feel we may be getting to the root cause - I sure hope so!

Thanks for all your comments/help so far peeps.

Nick
Harry
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Harry »

Steve Horrocks wrote:Hazza, who is this Steve fella?

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

Hi, Steve Is Imocuk name spitelli. He Is a low key member martial arts sensei, web designer mates with myself, Jason and James at 3 s service centre/GT Toyota. Mapped by Ryan2bar tuning, built and refined by James at 3 ssc. He Is a low key member and designs the 3 ssc Internet web site. His MR 2 Is a sleeper classic stock exterior drives smooth as silk. :twisted: Do like the Stevo-O MR 2 Nick not this one here though.
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

So, looking in the BGB I see that the igniter is connected to the tacho. This is looking more and more like the issue as when it cut out the tacho dropped like a stone to zero revs. Should I just replace this or do the coil at the same time?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just found you can test them with a multi-meter so will do that first.


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Bender Unit
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Bender Unit »

Do all the tests as well mate the igniter tested fine on one but then failed the other tests i did running a power source through it. TBH the coil is a pretty basic part and unlikley to go wrong but worth testing none the less.
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Bender Unit wrote:Do all the tests as well mate the igniter tested fine on one but then failed the other tests i did running a power source through it. TBH the coil is a pretty basic part and unlikley to go wrong but worth testing none the less.


OK - took me forever to actually get it out but it's on the bench now and ready for testing. However, there is conflicting information in the BGB test details. The flowchart says that the secondary coil should be 10 -14 Ohms. The 'detail' section further down says this should be 10 -14 kilo Ohms. Which one is it? :evil: I guess it is kilo-ohms as my readings come out to:

Primary coil - 0.5 ohms

Secondary coil - 12 kilo-ohms


James - I can't find the test you describe where you run a power source through it, or in fact any igniter tests as this seems to relate only to the coil... Do you have any details? Here is the page from the BGB I'm using:

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greeny
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by greeny »

Check around the casing where it meets the plastic nick as this is a common placefor water ingress! They can rust up around there,

On a side note its cheaper to buy an uprated coil(msd etc) than to buy a new oem one :thumleft:
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Cheers Michael,

Don't you just hate it when you try to fix things and just make them a damn sight worse? :evil: :evil:

The coil (or igniter - they seem to be the same thing in the BGB) checked out OK using their tests so I put it all back together again. Now the bloody thing won't even start! :evil:

I've just done a spark test as per BGB, disconnecting the HT lead that runs from igniter to dist. cap and cranking the engine. First time I did it I got one solid blue spark, then a weak orange one then nothing. Subsequent tests produced either one/two weak orange sparks or nothing at all. So I guess a new one is in order - I presume it's supposed to keep on sparking while cranking :lol:

I think I may have a reason for this by the way and it's down to something stupid that I did - in fact I'm almost too embarrased to say what it was but here goes...

I was having issues with my Rogue engine bay fans blowing fuses recently. I tracked one dodgy connection where there appeared to be an arc between two bullet connectors. I then found a wire behind the dash that was chaffing on the headunit mount (I had 3S wire the fans up to the defunct AC switch, so I could chose when to run them). Fuses still kept blowing so, in a hurry to get them working before the RR day, I wired them directly into the IGN wire in the engine bay fusebox (there was already an unused tap-off there so it was quick n easy). What I now realise is that I didn't go via the relay and when I pulled the in-line fuse today to get better access to the fusebox, the plastic surrounding the fuse has melted! Also, the spade connector on the back of the fuse carrier is looking a bit black.

Did I FUBAR the igniter with my dodgy wiring do we think :oops: :oops:
I guess this could explain the low power and rich running if there was not enough juice getting to the plugs to make a decent spark. If this turns out to be the case I'm going to be well peeved with myself. I was supposed to be at the Pod today to get some practice in for TOTB but of course missed that. Kicking myself at the moment... #-o

Nick
Harry
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Harry »

Sounds like It's starting to add up Nick.Rather get the ignition and electrics dealt with as the starting point to solving the power loss.
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Harry wrote:Sounds like It's starting to add up Nick.Rather get the ignition and electrics dealt with as the starting point to solving the power loss.


Indeed Harry :+:

Just need to find a spare one now so I can swap it out, think new ones are silly money from Mr. T

Nick
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Cleaned up the igniter mounting bracket tonight and refitted it all again - started first time so must have been a bad earth I guess. Took it for a hard drive and had the rev counter drop and and no power for a split second a couple of times. Seems to happen after booting it and then going into cruise mode for a while. Also sounds a little lumpy on idle, even when well warmed up. Kind of a faint, irregular popping noise from the exhaust, like it's misfiring.

On the plus side I figured it was all easier to get to without the charcoal canister in the way, so that's been binned :whistle:

The hunt is still on. Thanks to all who have helped so far :+:

Nick
Greddy-Matt
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Greddy-Matt »

FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Greddy-Matt wrote:Does it sound like this?
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s138 ... ustuse.flv


Yup, similar anyway. Will get a vid up later. :thumleft:

Nick
MR-S Turbo
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by MR-S Turbo »

Any cracks in the manifold?


Could only get 480 @ 1.5 bar the flywheel with mine with a cracked manifold.
Greddy-Matt
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by Greddy-Matt »

Any developments on this chap??
FreeFall
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by FreeFall »

Don't think it's a cracked manifold as the boost is rock steady. Current situation is that it's sat on the drive and won't start - I've been too busy at work to do much about it.

It drove fine over 150 miles on Thursday except for one point when the rev counter dropped like a stone and there was no power. All other electrics seemed fine and no lights on the dash. At the time I was just cruising on the dual carriageway, it cuts out and then about 10 seconds later, came back to life.

It cranks fine but I suspect that there is no spark again. SBits have sent a different coil/igniter to try out but unfortunately it appears that Royal Mail might have lost it.

It could be something else entirely but I'm at a loss as to what that might be...

I need to get a move on with this now to be ready for TOTB. Guess I'll need to get it up to Rogue or something to get it checked properly.

Nick
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Confused. Can someone 'in the know' take a look at these figures?

Post by MR-S Turbo »

I still got rock steady boost with a cracked manifold. But it does sound like you have some electrical problems too. Mine sometimes misfires quite badly and sounds pretty much as what your problem is but not as bad.
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