Why has the Toyota MR2 not evolved into the mk4?

[aaronjb]

Figures don't lie

Yeah.. you can pick up a Mk2 for what.. £3.50 and a pack of crisps, now?

[ENSMR2]

Figures don't lie

Yeah.. you can pick up a Mk2 for what.. £3.50 and a pack of crisps, now?

Still better then the MK1 which you pic up in bits lol

And the MK3 which is only picked up by "hairdressers" or you lol

[aaronjb]

Still better then the MK1 which you pic up in bits lol

Now now.. it's not bits.. it's 'kit form'.. or maybe 'just add water'

And the MK3 which is only picked up by "hairdressers" or you lol

I'll have you know I can cut a mean perm!

[Rob]

The new MX5 does seem to be a fantastic car.....but......I really do think it is ugly in comparison to its previous version. It now looks chunky, if you look at the suspension ride height it looks jacked up and it seems big for a little car. Its not the ugliest car don't get me wrong, but it has lost the sheer elegance of the non pop up light (late spec) version of the previous model.

Toyota are making a big mistake (in my opinion) if they ditch the sports side of their range because their other cars have all been notoriously boring.

Its the likes of the Avensis, the Sunny, the Bluebird, the 626 etc that labelled mid 90's Jap cars right to the present day as being soul-less despite their superb quality of engineering. All the Jap manufacturers have been guilty of that.

So to make it clear for them, we want from Toyota:

The sharp handling of the Mk1 and the majority of its 'concept'

The looks, style, class and power of the Mk2

The 'fun' factor of the Mk3 and the back to basics approach.


Good thread!

[jonb-]

So to make it clear for them, we want from Toyota:

The sharp handling of the Mk1 and the majority of its 'concept'

The looks, style, class and power of the Mk2

The 'fun' factor of the Mk3 and the back to basics approach.

So what you want is a VTEC powered Elise...

[Rowland]

It's interesting, as a former mk2 owner and a current mk3 owner, I think the mk3 scores low, no very low in the looks department.
In standard form the mk3 appears bug eyed and aesthetically quite uninteresting and a bit lame dare I say.
For the mk4 MR2 to evolve (in theory) into a car that'll make Joe Public in the street say "Hey Bob, have you seen the new MR2?!"
It needs to undergo a thoughtful more aggressive makeover IMO.

But is that the answer?
Ask a mk3 owner whether they're a 'peacock' or more a 'driver' they'll answer driver every time.
The whole 'my car is my image' thing and 'my car's pretty and I'm pretty too' stems from the classic 90's styling of the mk2 and doesn't necessarily ring true with the mk3 I believe.

Without meaning anything derogatory, a classic example of this might be RedMR² and Lauren above....

[Sidewinder]

Toyota are appearing to change their strategy on the vehicle line-up, and are clearly moving towards a more modern approach to the classic Ford/Vauxhall range (i.e. a supermini, a mini, small family, large family, sports, etc), which means that the old range - especially their sports cars - isn't financially viable anymore.

The MR2, Celica, and Supra are still great cars regardless as to which evolution or revision they are, and it was pretty 'daring' for a company like Toyota to offer that kind of choice to the punters.

Perhaps a combination of Toyota's three main sports cars would be the way forward? The looks of the Mk2 MR2, the grunt of the Supra IV, the luggage capacity of the Celica III, and the handling of the Mk3. Actually, that's perhaps asking a bit too much! LOL

[MartG]

Figures don't lie

Mk1 was on sale for 5 years
Mk2 was on sale for 10 years
Mk3 was on sale for 6 years

Maybe that's why more Mk2s were sold ( though I see more Mk1s on the road than Mk3s )

As for Toyota dropping its 'sporting' range, its interesting to compare the fortunes of car manufacturers who don't have sporty cars in their range compared to those who do - companies like Kia and Daewoo ( now rebadged as 'Chevrolet' ) have nothing like the public image that companies like Toyota, Honda etc. have. I'd argue that having sports cars in the range are very good for a car company's image - who cares if they don't make big profits, they should be counted as part of the advertising budget.

[tonigmr2]

Toyota are going more 'eco' now. They do need a topline model though IMHO, maybe the new 'supra' is going for that.

Trouble is MX5 is so successful anything they build won't get the sales, so that's probably the MR2 out the window.
T

[anna]

[quote="RedMR²"]That and the fact that pop up lights are no longer considered to be a style icon.
quote]

Passenger safety as lauren mentions is the recent arguement against pop ups, but 'back in the day' the problem is getting high speed stability both with and without the lights up. I'm sure it takes an age longer to tune the dynamics of a car with pop ups.

[Alex O]

Has anyone actually driven a new MX5?

Doubt many have....and has anyone read the May 2006 Evo? They say all sorts of derogatory things about the new MX5.

So, dont count on a new MR2 being destroyed by the current MX5, there is certainly room for improvement. It's almost as if Mazda have said "Oh, the MX5 did well, lets just update the looks and slap a new one out" without really concentrating on improving the engineering.

Oh, and MK2 Turbo is by far the best MR2 ever!!!

[Rob]

"So what you want is a VTEC powered Elise... "

Nearly Jon - but it needs to be slightly bigger and have a high top speed as well as good 0-60. We need to bring back the childhood wow factor - you must all remember asking 'whats the top speed' of a good looking car.

I agree the Mk3 looks great kitted up and slightly more agressive. I do find the interior very cheap feeling though.

Imagine a slighly bigger Elise, say the size of a TT with the engine from an RS4 with the fun factor of an Elise and you got it all!

I dont see why Toyota need to compete with the MX5 - there are plenty of people who wouldnt buy one of those as they see them as girly who would buy a sleek 2 seat MR layout that was affordable and had the grunt to match a 350z

[shibby!]

Mk2 best model by far.

Most power.
Best looks.
Still looks good today.
And it handles VERY well.

Now i have not driven the Mk3, but im confident with a little bit of modernisation of the Mk2 suspension that it will be just as good as the Mk3.

Now my mk2 is lowered, and it handles extremely well, very nimble and very responsive.

Can anyone tell us exaclty why the Mk3 handles better?

Nick

[tonigmr2]

Changes direction quicker and more predictable on the limit would be two guesses.

You guys have rose tinted specs on. The MK2 is a VERY '90s' car in all departments. It was a damn good one, but it is still an outdated car, yes even in looks!!

If you take a look at some of the new sports cars coming on stream (Civic, Supra even the new GTR) the MK2 is positively dated.

I like the MK2, as I do the MK1, they are iconic, but let's face it they could be seriously improved on with today's technology. If Toyota are going to do another MR2 it needs completely redesigning from the chassis upwards. That is massive investment, and given the market I don't think it will happen. (Remember Toyota are about the only car manufacturer in the black in the world at the moment, so they might make boring but they are making money doing it! No need for a sports car from their POV).
T

[shibby!]

But why is it more predictable on the limit? Aerodynamics?

I dont doubt that it will change direction faster, it is lighter afterall.

I personally think a little tweak with the suspension and it will be just as good.

Whack them both on coilovers etc i think they would be pretty much even.

I think the MK2 does not look dated at all. Set of clear fronts and clear sides. Think its an awesome looking car.

It actually looks like a sports car, which is more than i can say for some so called modern sports cars.

If the car is outdated why is it still faster than many many modern cars, thats on the bends and in a straight line.

I would love for Toyota to have a go at another MK2. 2.0 turbo, and great handling with a light weight body, with great looks.

Can you imagine, the body of a sports car, still mid engined, with modern chassis and a modern 2.0 turbo engine. no reason why over 350bhp standard horsepower cannot be done.

[tonigmr2]

Open your eyes and look at the new designs and concept cars! I don't doubt the MK2 still 'looks good', but it IS dated!! It will also be outhandled by a lot of modern but less graceful looking machinery...

I agree with the rest, they could (and should) do it!! Sadly Toyota seem to have lost touch with that kind of market, their corporate policy has veered away from it all.

T

[ENSMR2]

The mk1 is more predictable, you get more feel for what it is doing. I think around a track a mk2 na would still be quicker. It just wouldnt be as much fun.

And Toni, I disagree re the MK2 looks. It is known to be a few years old now as it's been "seen" since the early 90's and number plates.

Everyone I meet and I get talking to about my car all say that if it wasn't for the number plate the car would look like it had just been released. It doesn't look old and most of their exact words are "Even today it still looks good, unlike the one before it"

[tonigmr2]

LOL well the MK1 is definitely an 80s classic, that's why I like it I'm an 80s chick.

But sorry, I stick by my view the MK2 is a 90s car!
T

[shibby!]

I dont agree with it being out handled by many other modern cars.

Get them on a dry road, and i am extremely confident that the Mr2 will out handle most cars.

i cant think of a modern car that would be far better then the Mr2 that of course is a reasonable price. Not including 40k beemers with traction control etc.

Imprezza's Evo's are a different story, although im sure that on certain roads there would not be much in it.

Nick

[ENSMR2]

LOL well the MK1 is definitely an 80s classic, that's why I like it I'm an 80s chick.

But sorry, I stick by my view the MK2 is a 90s car!
T

Of course it is lol, thats when the "existed" lol

You are entitled to you opinions T.

Doesn't change the fact you're wrong