911 Carrera

[steve b]

Steve - yes the Disco potato is a nice turbo. I'd considered going that route prior to getting the TD06 which is why I remembered that MR2/GT3 thread I posted earlier. Maybe it's something to try once I've killed my TD06... either that or a GT35R

Btw can I have a look at you dyno sheet? I'm just curious to know what your power and torque curve is like with the GT28RS on an MX5.

I'll dig out a copy for you, I only have a print at 250bhp/220lbs (11psi - MX5 1.8 CR is 9:1) from Surrey Rolling Road pre Ryan.G remap. It was on actuator boost control then so has better spool now with electronic control If I had another MR2 turbo I'd put the Spud on it as well. 1.8 really is the smallest engine you'd use one with, aimed at 1.8 - 2.5litre engines so the MR2 you'd get better spool again and I'm sure the MR2 head flows better than the mx5. I get peak torque about 5500rpm then it tails off but power keeps rising straight to redline. I'd expect an MR2 curve to show about as happy compromise power delivery & peak power as I'd ever want in an MR2. As they say, its not all about the peak figure, its the area under the curve that counts

[mr2nut123]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j8NwaSf4TTo

Looks like the extra £37k is for a plastic badge after all

I seemed to have missed your point. A GT3 follows a GTR round the Ring, err that seems to be it.

GT3RS Nurburgring time - 7:43
Nissan GTR (non-supercar model ) - 7:29

That's a considerable difference, especially considering that it's only a...what was it again Matt? "fast Nissan that can't pull birds" lmao.

GTR = Supercar in every aspect and the V-Spec isn't even out yet!

[Lauren]

GT3RS Nurburgring time - 7:43
Nissan GTR (non-supercar model ) - 7:29

That's a considerable difference, especially considering that it's only a...what was it again Matt? "fast Nissan that can't pull birds" lmao.

GTR = Supercar in every aspect and the V-Spec isn't even out yet!

It's not as big a difference as you might think considering the length of the Ring. Who wants a 4WD car that practically drives itself anyway?

You also seem to miss the point that laptimes do not ever tell the whole story.

[Ekona]

I'd rather have a slower car with more driver involvement than something with a million gizmos that does warp 10.

[Lauren]

I'd rather have a slower car with more driver involvement than something with a million gizmos that does warp 10.

DAFL.

[mr2nut123]

GT3RS Nurburgring time - 7:43
Nissan GTR (non-supercar model ) - 7:29

That's a considerable difference, especially considering that it's only a...what was it again Matt? "fast Nissan that can't pull birds" lmao.

GTR = Supercar in every aspect and the V-Spec isn't even out yet!

It's not as big a difference as you might think considering the length of the Ring. Who wants a 4WD car that practically drives itself anyway?

You also seem to miss the point that laptimes do not ever tell the whole story.

Changed your tune all of a sudden. I thought it was all about how a car handles and performs Lauren? Laptimes tell the entire story. For it to get the better time it means it handles better and/or has more power = the better car.

[Michel]

Better handling or easier to drive.. big difference.
Besides.. you (and 99,9% of IMOC) will never be able to match those laptimes anyway so why bother..

Just drive the car you like.. as long as you're having fun.. and if it's faster then a Integra.. then it's all good.

[mr2nut123]

Better handling or easier to drive.. big difference.
Besides.. you (and 99,9% of IMOC) will never be able to match those laptimes anyway so why bother..

Just drive the car you like.. as long as you're having fun.. and if it's faster then a Integra.. then it's all good.

100% to be exact. Those happy jappy chappies can't be beaten. The point that was made though, was that because the GT3RS cost a lot more, that it had better technology and had more pedigree and racing development thrown at it, but when looking at the fact that the GTR hands it's ass on a place for a CONSIDERABLE price difference, to me it's just using history from when they WERE untouchable by other companies to rip people off. Plus if you look at the Skylines history, I bet it has every bit as much racing experience as Porsche if not more.

lol at the last bit. I must admit I do like the Integras, but for the DC2 only the Jap model, not too keen on the front lights on the UK one. Just the lack of kick on the straights and the FWD that puts me off a bit.

[Lauren]

Changed your tune all of a sudden. I thought it was all about how a car handles and performs Lauren? Laptimes tell the entire story. For it to get the better time it means it handles better and/or has more power = the better car.

It is all about how a car handles and performs. Laptimes do not tell the entire story. It is not that simplistic I am afraid.

Just because a car has more mechanical grip than another car does not necessarily follow that it handles better.

Once again I ask how much experience you have of assessing car handling on track?

[Lauren]

100% to be exact. Those happy jappy chappies can't be beaten. The point that was made though, was that because the GT3RS cost a lot more, that it had better technology and had more pedigree and racing development thrown at it, but when looking at the fact that the GTR hands it's ass on a place for a CONSIDERABLE price difference, to me it's just using history from when they WERE untouchable by other companies to rip people off. Plus if you look at the Skylines history, I bet it has every bit as much racing experience as Porsche if not more.

lol at the last bit. I must admit I do like the Integras, but for the DC2 only the Jap model, not too keen on the front lights on the UK one. Just the lack of kick on the straights and the FWD that puts me off a bit.

I don't think the Skyline has anywhere near the pedigree of Porsche, can't see that at all.

Handling is not something that is purely in the domain of RWD as I have found out.

[Michel]

I think there should be a nice balance between absolute grip and a sweet spot where the car is kinda.. loose. You know that feeling you get when you're in the middle of a corner, doing little adjustments and trying to make the corner just perfect.. you can feel every movement of the car in your bottom.. you exit the corner and you just know it : that was perfect. That's what a GT3 does.. and then some. Have you seen vids of the R35 GT-R ? It understeers.. and not just a little bit. It has so much grip though..

Too much mechanical grip leads to a boring car.. to some extent.

[Ekona]

I'm not even sure the GTR has that much mechanical grip tbh. How many reviews have we read where the journo says that they've barrelled into a corner going miles too fast, thought they should lift to regain some grip, but instead just floored it and let the electronics sort everything out? Same applies to the Evo and Impreza as well. It could be argued that Porsche have done a far better job engineering a car that has the engine in completely the wrong place behind the rear axle, to be a complete drivers car and no longer the widow maker it used to be in pre996 form. Nissan just threw their not-inconsiderable computing skills at their car and made it work.


Yes, there's always more to it than that as Nissan do make some beautiful handling cars without 4WD and electronic gadgets (I should know, I own one!) so they do know what they're doing, but how fast would a GTR be without all the gadgets? I'd like to see the Blitz RWD one in action to see how they compare, although even that has been breathed upon.

[steve b]

Once again I ask how much experience you have of assessing car handling on track?

He doesn't. Previously (another thread) when he was trying to tell us how amazing the MR2's handling was he let slip he's never been on a track. Everything he says is taken from what others have said (and his "experience" of racing round Bradford), thats why its like banging your head against the wall trying to get your points over to him.

[Quigonjay]

i don't think the Skyline has anywhere near the pedigree of Porsche, can't see that at all.

the skyline has been around since 1953, 6 years longer than the 911, the gtr has been winning races since 1969

[Quigonjay]

another classic imoc btw, well done guys

[splashnatz]

lol @ all the "trackday superstars"

[mr2nut123]

Once again I ask how much experience you have of assessing car handling on track?

He doesn't. Previously (another thread) when he was trying to tell us how amazing the MR2's handling was he let slip he's never been on a track. Everything he says is taken from what others have said (and his "experience" of racing round Bradford), thats why its like banging your head against the wall trying to get your points over to him.

What's the difference between been on a track compared to using the streets in early hours when nobody is on the road? Nothing, it's tarmac and has corners as well as straights ffs. I have quarter miled before and beaten many guys on here with far less power, ask Splash Before I get the SLJ reply, yes I have got great driving ability all-round. Do you think that from having a tubby since 19 and taking it through its paces without any incidents is just luck? Many guys come on here at that age (and a lot older and more experienced) and it's in a tree within days.

Bang your head on a brick wall all you want. Why would I take in a point when it's not what I believe? You guys prefer Prestige performance (but can't afford it) I prefer jap performance, as do many others on here. It's as simple as that. Why don't you get THAT point across?

[mr2nut123]

I'm not even sure the GTR has that much mechanical grip tbh. How many reviews have we read where the journo says that they've barrelled into a corner going miles too fast, thought they should lift to regain some grip, but instead just floored it and let the electronics sort everything out? Same applies to the Evo and Impreza as well. It could be argued that Porsche have done a far better job engineering a car that has the engine in completely the wrong place behind the rear axle, to be a complete drivers car and no longer the widow maker it used to be in pre996 form. Nissan just threw their not-inconsiderable computing skills at their car and made it work.


Yes, there's always more to it than that as Nissan do make some beautiful handling cars without 4WD and electronic gadgets (I should know, I own one!) so they do know what they're doing, but how fast would a GTR be without all the gadgets? I'd like to see the Blitz RWD one in action to see how they compare, although even that has been breathed upon.

One company uses mechanical grip, another users electronics....what's your point exactly without trying to sound harsh?

I'm betting the technology in the GTR costs a damn sight more to produce once initial testing has taken place. This can go on and on, it's what each person prefers. If there was a GT3 and a GTR parked at either side of the road, i'd be drooling over the GTR before taking a quick look at the boring looking Boxster with a GT wing.

Maybe these kind of cars are the new era of supercars to us youths and the oldies are just jealous that their non-gadjetry machines can't keep the pace

[tonigmr2]

i don't think the Skyline has anywhere near the pedigree of Porsche, can't see that at all.

the skyline has been around since 1953, 6 years longer than the 911, the gtr has been winning races since 1969

Jay. While I agree with a lot of the points Lauren has made the R32GTR has considerable heritage, indeed I believe it was disqualified from one series as it just kept winning.

What's the difference between been on a track compared to using the streets in early hours when nobody is on the road? Nothing, it's tarmac and has corners as well as straights ffs.

Oh dear. You were doing rather well. This does say to me rather that you have never taken a car on track. There is a world of difference. Suggest you go and try it!

[mr2nut123]

i don't think the Skyline has anywhere near the pedigree of Porsche, can't see that at all.

the skyline has been around since 1953, 6 years longer than the 911, the gtr has been winning races since 1969

Jay. While I agree with a lot of the points Lauren has made the R32GTR has considerable heritage, indeed I believe it was disqualified from one series as it just kept winning.

What's the difference between been on a track compared to using the streets in early hours when nobody is on the road? Nothing, it's tarmac and has corners as well as straights ffs.

Oh dear. You were doing rather well. This does say to me rather that you have never taken a car on track. There is a world of difference. Suggest you go and try it!

So there's differences in the fact that there are more people on the track and courtesy plays a big part, but having toyed with a few Porsches, M3s and similar powered cars (whoever here can hand on heart say that they haven't had a play on the roads in safe situations is blatently lying) i'm very aware of my cars potential and my driving skills.

I will be doing some track days eventually but got other things going on at the moment.

Ok so it's not a car, but I do karting a fair bit. Karting has the same principles as tracking a car. You have understeer and oversteer, warming the tyres, racing lines and even left foot braking