Best trackday harness for a Mk2 ??

[Rustyracing]

Hi folks,

I'm after some advice as to the best racing/clubman harness for a Mk2 MR2 trackday car.

I have been trying to figure out the best belt arrangement to fit a set of std Rev3 seats and it would seem that a simple Sparco 3point harness would fit the standard seatbelt fixing points either side of the seats and would fasten to the bulkhead behind the seat quite nicely.

Or would it best to get a 4 point clubman-style harness and try and loop the top belts back down to the same attach points as the lap straps?

The car isn't stripped as yet, and probably won't be for a while. The belts don't need to be FIA approved, just enough to keep driver and passenger firmly in place. And ideally, I'd stretch to a double release version to save the belts getting in the way of the std belt when the car is used on the road.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Damo

[Rustyracing]

Why have the last 2 posts been deleted on this thread ???

Someone responded to my post and I replied back, where have those posts gone, why would they be deleted??

[jont]

Glitch in the Matrix:
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=92077

[Rustyracing]

Ah, righto. Those damn agents, always messing with our heads.

[System-G]

I recon the best harnesses for trackday use would be 4-point clip-in Driver Harness - same that I use in my MK1's as the seat-to-firewall positions would be about the same.
The clip-in can be easily removed so they are not in the way during normal road use where the regular seatbelts can be used.

I'd also go for 2" shoulder straps - rather than the 3" FIA approved harnesses as they are generally a little more comfortable.

The buckle can also be similar to the OEM clip-in type rather than the rotational FIA aproved buckle (which is also not road legal)

I use a pair of Sabelts similar to this one:


They cost around £60.00 each from https://www.europaspares.com/

Modified the rear straps to adjust to length (tried caterham & westfiled harnesses, but they were too short):






The standard seatbelt bolts are replaced with the eyebolts, so they can still be used

[Lauren]

If you can go 6 point, it really does help. I used to run a 6 point with a stock seat before i got the bucket. It actually worked okay, though when guys tried it they seemed to find it uncomfortable.

Actually I really like 3" straps as they spread the load better.

Agree with what others said, you absolutely must locate the shoulder straps properly through the bulkhead and with spreader plates like Garrick has.

[Bender Unit]

If you mount to the bulk head then put a spreader plate that runs between the two should strap points, just so they dont rip through the firewall in an accident. Its very easy to make. Some flat rolled thick steel from B&Q - cut to size. Drill the 2 holes you need for the harness eylets and then weld 2 M12 nuts to it.

[skinthespin]

A 4 point 2 inch wide belt is the absolute minimum you should go for, generally 3 inch belts are much more comfortable and safe in an accident (which is the point surely), also a 5 or 6 point belt stops the belt riding up over the session, again making them safer and better for bracing under braking.



To repeat what others have said its imperative there mounted correctly, to mount them like you suggested in your first post is lethal.

[Lauren]

how i had it in my old SC track car:

[/quote]

[RichardPON]

Personally I hate harnesses on standard seats, as they are not designed for them whatsoever.

[System-G]

Personally I hate harnesses on standard seats, as they are not designed for them whatsoever.

A few of us have no problems running harness on stock MK1 seats - they fit fine and hold you in much, much better than regular seatbelts. so much so, one of my mates has decided not to upgrade his seats to bucket seats...

[kaiowas]

I've almost gone the other way. Since putting the buckets in the track car it's so snug that I'm wondering whether I'll get any benefit from having harnesses over a standard 3 point seatbelt.

[System-G]

I've almost gone the other way. Since putting the buckets in the track car it's so snug that I'm wondering whether I'll get any benefit from having harnesses over a standard 3 point seatbelt.

IMO, It needs to be snug. So snug so that your arms & legs are totally free to do what they need to without the need to assist bracing your body

[Rustyracing]

Thanks very much the input everybody. Very much obliged for all your informed opinions.

So we're talking 4 point clip-in belts, either 2" or 3", eyebolts for the two lap straps to fix std belts and use the eyebolt to clip in the harness. The shoulder straps get bolted to the bulkhead with eyebolts fixed into spreader plates. This sounds like it'd fit well enough to a std mk2 seat.

Would the shoulder straps go inside or outside the head-rest supports??

A 6 point harnesses would probably necessitate a proper bucket seat, the std seats would surely not be able to cope. And I'm not fitting bucket seats yet, I might do that if and when I totally strip the interior.

Ta
Damo

[RichardPON]

Personally I hate harnesses on standard seats, as they are not designed for them whatsoever.

A few of us have no problems running harness on stock MK1 seats - they fit fine and hold you in much, much better than regular seatbelts. so much so, one of my mates has decided not to upgrade his seats to bucket seats...

Yes, but you've missed the point.

You haven't had a problem, as you haven't had an accident. In the event of a serious crash, standard seats are much more prone to vertical collapse, meaning that your spine isn't protected. Also, when the seat deforms on impact, shoulder straps can slide off, rendering them completely useless

No scrutineer worth his salt would ever pass that sort of arrangement for proper motorsport, as harness straps should always have guides, and a proper seat to ensure their correct function.

Of course, people will use harnesses on a standard car, and whilst it may be fine, these things are supposed to be there "in the unlikely event that....."

[Lauren]

A few of us have no problems running harness on stock MK1 seats - they fit fine and hold you in much, much better than regular seatbelts. so much so, one of my mates has decided not to upgrade his seats to bucket seats...

Bucket seats really are a massive and well worthwhile upgrade over standard seats with harnesses. I used to run a harness on my stock seat, I actually used a 6 point. It was an improvement over a stock seat with a stock seat belt, but the quantum leap came when i put a decent bucket seat in. When i did this i found that i was just so much more accurate with the steering as i wasn't using the wheel as a means of holding myself in the car.

Whilst i think a harness does help with holding you in even on a standard seat, the true advantage of a harness can only be realised when you combine it with a bucket seat.

[mr2mk1chick]

If you mount to the bulk head then put a spreader plate that runs between the two should strap points, just so they dont rip through the firewall in an accident. Its very easy to make. Some flat rolled thick steel from B&Q - cut to size. Drill the 2 holes you need for the harness eylets and then weld 2 M12 nuts to it.

by the time you've gone to this effort, you may as well have bought the right thing in the first place- they are only around £5 delivered for a proper spreader plate with nut welded in place (save petrol, effort, crowds in B&Q, and welding etc)

[System-G]

A few of us have no problems running harness on stock MK1 seats - they fit fine and hold you in much, much better than regular seatbelts. so much so, one of my mates has decided not to upgrade his seats to bucket seats...

Bucket seats really are a massive and well worthwhile upgrade over standard seats with harnesses. I used to run a harness on my stock seat, I actually used a 6 point. It was an improvement over a stock seat with a stock seat belt, but the quantum leap came when i put a decent bucket seat in. When i did this i found that i was just so much more accurate with the steering as i wasn't using the wheel as a means of holding myself in the car.

Whilst i think a harness does help with holding you in even on a standard seat, the true advantage of a harness can only be realised when you combine it with a bucket seat.

I know and I agree 100% with you.

Was just adding comments mentioned by Uncle Tom at a recent track day regarding his stock seats
I have only been a passenger in a stock seat with harnesses and must admit it felt quite good.
Still I prefer my bucket/harness combination

[Rogue]

by the time you've gone to this effort, you may as well have bought the right thing in the first place- they are only around £5 delivered for a proper spreader plate with nut welded in place (save petrol, effort, crowds in B&Q, and welding etc)

67p+vat each from Demon Tweeks! (http://www.demon-tweeks.com/products/Pr ... =SBRSPLATE)

I'll echo what most people have said on this thread - Get a proper 6 point harness with 3" shoulder straps and 2" lap straps. All of our race cars use Schroth belts - either the Profi II-6 or the Profi II-Slipstop for HANS users. I prefer them because they have a seperate toggle for adjusting the lap belts that you don't get on more basic items. I've driven cars with stock seats and three point belts and in all honesty I felt safer with a standard belt and a CG-Lock! (Also worthy of consideration).

A proper race seat is a must as well - you won't believe how much your driving ability comes on when you're actually moving with the car rather than rolling around in your seat. Securely strapped, you'll feel every movement of the chassis beneath and the forces acting on the car will be exactly the forces acting on you. It's very much a cliche, put you will feel like you're "wearing" the car!

Patrick

[Bender Unit]

by the time you've gone to this effort, you may as well have bought the right thing in the first place- they are only around £5 delivered for a proper spreader plate with nut welded in place (save petrol, effort, crowds in B&Q, and welding etc)

Eh? A spreader plate is a thick bit of steal with a nut welded to it, how is what I described not the right or proper thing? :S

The difference with the approach I have suggested is that you can spread you weight over a larger surface area rather than a relatively small surface area with 2 comparatively small spreader plates. Spreading you weight over a larger area will mean chance of the harness mount ripping through the firewall in a crash.

From what I recall the firewall behind the seats is not the strongest and I personally wouldn’t want to attach my harness to this area without taking precautions to evenly distribute my weight across the panel in the event of a smash.

If you look at a stock seat belt, it fixes into key reinforced structural locations which are more likely to stand up in a crash – unlike a firewall!

I know my safety is a bit more important than having to exert a bit of effort and go to B&Q

But hey, each to their own, I know what I would do.