MR2 Turbo VS Honda Integra Type R???

[SW20Paul]

can i just ask what a "beams" engine is? i had a strange dream the other night and someone told me it ran on natural gas or something? - i suppose thats not as weird as the one where i was a turnip and the farmer was chasing me with a big gun...but i am genuinely interested in the answer.. - to the beams question that is.

Its a variant of the 3sge engine with variable valve timing. Its rated at 200bhp.

Its rated at 200ps

[HT]

Just read scanned through this thread, and its a bit chalk and cheese.

Mr2's are great cars but must say the performance and drivability of the Honda would put it top of my list. Circa 200bhp is plenty for the road - having experienced their VTEC revability plus reliability in the past, they are hard to beat.

[nakamura]

IMO since i sold my MR2 there are very few cars i would car 'drivers cars' as you refer to it Lauren.
Ive been drivng a variety of motors lately and none match the MR2 for sheer feel of race car driving. Most BWMs, Evos, Scoobies. The only things not driven are the Integras, Supra and RX7 but these aside most cars lack any drivers car feel as most are saloons with powerful engines and are just dull to drive.

Ok the MK2 doesnt have amazing feedback as discussed but it really is a great drivers car. The low slung position enhances the feeling of speed and the mid-engine setup feels fantastic.

Im not saying better or worse than DC2. But simply the MR2 is a drivers car and a great one at that.

[teccyjim]

In 2006 'EVO Magazine' did a test to find the greatest 'FF' car of all time (think i have the magazine somewhere!?).

Against the likes of the Clio Williams, 205 GTI, FTO, Clio 182 cup etc, the testers agreed unanimously that the Integra was in a league of it's own. The engine being the main reason. They also agreed it would shame many an 'FR' or 'MR' car and for driver involvement was one of the greatest cars ever made.

Have been a passinger in a DC2 with Tenabe exhaust and J's racing intake- I can't remember a better noise. Nor have I heard anything that 'encourages' you to really go for it and get involved, that noise change at 6K RPM is hard to beat, is the BEAMS like that?

That said, the MR2 has a driving position you simply cannot get without spending far, far more money. Low and 'cocooned' in like a fighter pilot, it feels special.

A Honda VTEC B18C, H22A or K20A lump in an MR2.........That would be a special combination!

Jimbo

[Harry]

In 2006 'EVO Magazine' did a test to find the greatest 'FF' car of all time (think i have the magazine somewhere!?).

Against the likes of the Clio Williams, 205 GTI, FTO, Clio 182 cup etc, the testers agreed unanimously that the Integra was in a league of it's own. The engine being the main reason. They also agreed it would shame many an 'FR' or 'MR' car and for driver involvement was one of the greatest cars ever made.

Have been a passinger in a DC2 with Tenabe exhaust and J's racing intake- I can't remember a better noise. Nor have I heard anything that 'encourages' you to really go for it and get involved, that noise change at 6K RPM is hard to beat, is the BEAMS like that?

That said, the MR2 has a driving position you simply cannot get without spending far, far more money. Low and 'cocooned' in like a fighter pilot, it feels special.

A Honda VTEC B18C, H22A or K20A lump in an MR2.........That would be a special combination!

Jimbo

Great Comment Jimbo! Too true!

[Bicepius]

I would like to share this video. it prooves the mr2 is faster on the track against the Integra, if you have the same/similar calibre drivers in both cars. Integra is not overrated but the MR2 chasis is very underrated, when you have a good driver.

(this video shows Beams NA MR2 v Integra type r and Nissan 200sx.) Very Interesting.

First Video is standard

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2714232166

Second Video is with a few basic mods added to each car.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7238043896


So you can imagine if it was A MR2 turbo it would of left the ITR, and 200sx. (please read the rest of my post before replying)

I personaly love integras I think they are a very focused car, i currently have a MR2 turbo and have been thinking of one to have myself just becuase the mr2 turbo is qite hairy in the wet and since it rains in england 50% of year then it would be sensible choice plus I love the High reving Honda engines.

With all type R cars , whether it would be a NSX, civic ek9 type R, new civic, integra etc. Honda spend the same time getting each car just right, wheather its just down to changing very a very small part of the car to improve just that little bit. The engines are amazing, especialy the b18c and b16b motors, the b16b i beleive is probably the most highly tuned engine Honda has done for a road car, it was in the JDM EK9 Civic type R which was a 1.6 litre vtech producing 185bhp at around 8500rpm, and you can rev it all the way up to 9200rpm if you need the extra space. Now thats impressive for a 1.6 litre engine from factory with no forced induction. All honda Type R cars are stunning out the box.

Anyway back to the point, Basicly the Integra is very very good FOR A FF LAYOUT, but when you try and say an FF car with circa 200bhp is gonna outhandle a slightly heavier MR car with 250bhp theres no chance. Yes the Integra is much more chuckable and forgiving but when you have 2 drivers of the same/ similar calibre of driving skill, 1 in each car, an mr2 turbo would just eat a Integra on any track. Souly becuase the MR2 has a better layout AND more horsepower. Its basicly down to having so much grip meaning corner exit speads are insane with MR layout.

Please dont look at this as a biased opinion I have mountains of respect for the Integra Type R, If it was pouring with rain, I would pick one over the MR2, and you cant beat the instant response of a highly tuned NA engine and FWD LSD turn in. Plus the b18 sounds awsome at WOT

[Harry]

Great report well done and the best thing about them both Is that they are Japanese,one of each would be a dream come true.Yes,can relate with the Integra type drive used to own a front wheel drive high revving Levin 4 agze supercharger with LSD and light weight chassis 165 HP.

[G-force]

A dc2 would easily be faster than a N/A mr2. I used to have a stock uk civic vti (1.6 vtec 158bhp). I lined it up with my bro's old N/A mr2 off the line. It was totally even until vtec kicked in and I was gone. A dc2 is quite a lot faster than that, I've sat in one and it does shift in a straight line let alone corners!

[Slarty]

A dc2 would easily be faster than a N/A mr2.

please read the rest of my post before replying

A BEAMS equiped MR2. Circa 200 ps, not the "normal" N/A MR2. Plus the turbo (225/245bhp) MR2.

[steve b]

I would like to share this video. it prooves the mr2 is faster on the track against the Integra, if you have the same/similar calibre drivers in both cars.

(this video shows Beams NA MR2 v Integra type r and Nissan 200sx.) Very Interesting.

First Video is standard

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2714232166

Second Video is with a few basic mods added to each car.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7238043896

Hum the two films I just watched showed a BEAMS MR2 holding up an ITR then when ITR got passed it pulled away. The 2nd film showed an ITR getting held up by a 200sx then rapidly catching up with an MR2, give it another lap or two and it'd probably have got past.

[Lauren]

I would like to share this video. it prooves the mr2 is faster on the track against the Integra, if you have the same/similar calibre drivers in both cars. Integra is not overrated but the MR2 chasis is very underrated, when you have a good driver.

(this video shows Beams NA MR2 v Integra type r and Nissan 200sx.) Very Interesting.

First Video is standard

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2714232166

Second Video is with a few basic mods added to each car.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7238043896


So you can imagine if it was A MR2 turbo it would of left the ITR, and 200sx. (please read the rest of my post before replying)

So the Integra is faster than the other two in all conditions, is all over the mr2 at pretty much every corner and once past it it walks away from the MR2 with consumate ease. So will a bit more bruce force of the turbo make all the difference? I'm not convinced unless there are some long straights. An mr2 turbo is still going to be slower through the corners than the integra.

I honestly think the mr2 chassis is generally over-rated, mostly on mr2 forums. What would you rather have, McCrapson struts all round or double wishbones all round?

[Slarty]

I honestly think the mr2 chassis is generally over-rated, mostly on mr2 forums.

By that token, shouldn't you be on a honda owners club e-masturbating over your honda with the other fanbois?

[Lauren]

I honestly think the mr2 chassis is generally over-rated, mostly on mr2 forums.

By that token, shouldn't you be on a honda owners club e-masturbating over your honda with the other fanbois?

Unlike you (I guess) I feel no urge to masturbate over my car.

[salamanzer]

As a DC5 owner till a few months ago - harry has seen the car....

The DC5 and DC2 chassis is far in advance of the MR2's.

The MR2 turbo has more power and torque and will pull it in on the straights, but hey you wanna race in a straight line, there are plenty of 800hp+ turbo DC5's in the states go knock yourself out, most running 9's in the 1/4 mile.

Get them on a track, a standard DC2/5 will keep up with evo's and all that ilk.... the chassis are brilliant, and Honda spent a huge amount of time at the track honing it!

I agree with Lauren, drive both and the difference is undeniable, sorry!

[mr2nut123]

I honestly think the mr2 chassis is generally over-rated, mostly on mr2 forums.

By that token, shouldn't you be on a honda owners club e-masturbating over your honda with the other fanbois?

lol this comes up all the time now, think people are getting sick of sados with different cars signing staying on their old MR2 forums saying their car is better, ner ner.

[Lauren]

lol this comes up all the time now, think people are getting sick of sados with different cars signing staying on their old MR2 forums saying their car is better, ner ner.

It makes me laugh (quite a lot) when people cannot accept that other cars can possibly have a better chassis or be a better car than theirs.

Why is that?

So are you really going to argue that the DC2 doesn't have a better chassis than an MR2?

[Kongaroo]

I honestly think the mr2 chassis is generally over-rated, mostly on mr2 forums. What would you rather have, McCrapson struts all round or double wishbones all round?

I don't think anyone is going to argue against the fact that double wishbones are superior to MacPherson struts. Probably the only positive that a MacPherson strut has over a double wishbone setup is they tend to be a bit lighter.

But Macpherson struts do not immediately mean a crap handling car. Modern Porsches, BMW's, EVOs etc all use Machpherson struts btw.

Ps - if that 40BHP isn't enough to make up the difference then turn up the dial on the boost controller

[Lauren]

I don't think anyone is going to argue against the fact that double wishbones are superior to MacPherson struts. Probably the only positive that a MacPherson strut has over a double wishbone setup is they tend to be a bit lighter.

But Macpherson struts do not immediately mean a crap handling car. Modern Porsches, BMW's, EVOs etc all use Machpherson struts btw.

Ps - if that 40BHP isn't enough to make up the difference then turn up the dial on the boost conroller

I agree mcpherson struts don't automatically mean crap handling by any means. Whilst plenty of good handling cars use them, they tend not to use them all round and mainly on the front. So yes it is possible to have good handling with a mcpherson strut.

I'm not sure I follow how a double wishbone setup is heavier though. Have you felt the weight of a mcpherson strut, weighs an absolute ton.

But yes overall nobody would doubt which is the better setup.

[Kongaroo]

I'm not sure I follow how a double wishbone setup is heavier though. Have you felt the weight of a mcpherson strut, weighs an absolute ton.

Actually it is widely accepted that Macpherson struts are generally lighter than double wishbones suspensions - a quick google search just now turned up several articles stating this but here is one for those that can't be bothered to search :

http://mcsformula.co.uk/design.aspx

[loadswine]

I'm not going to attempt to argue what is better here, but , because of this thread I've found some superb fottage on youtube that I might otherwise have missed. One thing is for sure, these DC2s are pretty amazing on a track from what I've seen, and you can't deny the engineering that lets an engine behave like that.
Is one for me? I doubt it, as I wouldn't part with my 2, but you have to respect a front drive machine that does the job so well.
There really is no contest in the looks department though, any incarnation of the 2 is better looking imho, though the DC5 is very tidy.
Horses for course though, and if anyone is at a track day with an Integra and I happen to be around, I'd love a ride in one.
I just love great cars!