'95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

MR2s for sale - all versions & variants

Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members

3sgte
Posts: 2731
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:44 pm
Location: sunny suffolk

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by 3sgte »

3S Service Centre wrote:
Who o why o why would anyone of Peters experience put the pistons back in if the looseness in the pistons was so bad it would create more than acceptable slap, afterall with the crank out, a quick hone and larger piston would give a immediate fix, and surely if the customer was given the option to fix whilst the crank is out i find it hard to beleive he would accept knowing what future trouble it would create if not sorted.

:(
Sorry for you Glen but is this simply not a case of caring for your hard earned better???

James


Peter would not have needed to remove the head to change the crank .i would guess he just took the gearbox off and sump/cambelt /oilpump and done it with engine in situ

as for not test driving a 7.5k car ,well hate to say it but my dad always taught me
BUYER BEWARE !!!
Martin F
IMOC Moderator
Posts: 14830
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:19 pm
Location: The Couch !

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by Martin F »

EarL wrote:Here's Ben's latest email to me:

Ben.g wrote:Glen,

the reason it took two months if not longer to diagnose the broken crankshaft was because the car was sat waiting in the backlog of cars sbits had to work through until mine was next in the que.

as soon as the said noise became apparent it was pretty obvious something wasn't right. fortunately it happened approx half a mile away from my friends farm. where the car stayed until sbits had enough room to accommodate the car. allowing me to arrange the hire of a trailer for transprtation of the mr2.

sbits were never employed to fully diagnose the piston slap noise as Peter has quoted in his email to you

"engine noise that we felt was nothing other than piston slap"

at no point was i informed that it was a serious problem that needed to be dealt with. in my experience of engines with forged pistons, they all aound the same.

We acknowledge you are seeking legal advice and we await contact from your solicitor regarding this matter. Please note we are also seeking legal advice and until we receive that advice we are not willing to enter into further corrospondence with you.

We hope you understand our position.

Rgds Ben


I have now spoken to Peter Gidden at some length, and he has confirmed catagorically that Ben WAS informed on two separate occasions about the piston slap.

EarL.


if this was my situation i would just have given you your car back earl, shame other people aren't so conservative ehh :roll:

anyway, I've read and input (even though it isn't really my business) and i hope the outcome is both swift and acceptable to both parties,
however why did ben say he was out of the country (supposedly) yet is just carrying on from where his mum left off :?


I'm not going to get any more involved in this and will not be posting in this topic again.

just like too add that i really hope you get this sorted earl :thumleft:
3S Service Centre
Posts: 3493
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:16 pm
Location: www.toyotagt.co.uk
Contact:

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by 3S Service Centre »

Furry muff.


3sgte wrote:
3S Service Centre wrote:
Who o why o why would anyone of Peters experience put the pistons back in if the looseness in the pistons was so bad it would create more than acceptable slap, afterall with the crank out, a quick hone and larger piston would give a immediate fix, and surely if the customer was given the option to fix whilst the crank is out i find it hard to beleive he would accept knowing what future trouble it would create if not sorted.

:(
Sorry for you Glen but is this simply not a case of caring for your hard earned better???

James


Peter would not have needed to remove the head to change the crank .i would guess he just took the gearbox off and sump/cambelt /oilpump and done it with engine in situ

as for not test driving a 7.5k car ,well hate to say it but my dad always taught me
BUYER BEWARE !!!
call James on 01256 883386 or 07786073755
wiggee
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:26 pm

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by wiggee »

I'm not going to get any more involved in this and will not be posting in this topic again.

just like too add that i really hope you get this sorted earl :thumleft:[/quote]

Im with you but the seller of that car is simpley a rip off merchant , and should be shamed ..... hopefulley someone rips him off someday but he will probably be the first person too complain.

hope all goes well earl , i h8 this type of thing :clap: :clap: :clap:

:^o
tonigmr2
IMOC Committee
Posts: 18054
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:30 pm
Location: Here

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by tonigmr2 »

To be fair it is not right to call someone a rip-off merchant when you have literally only one side of the story. For all we know he did think it would be OK - we are not in a position to know.

But as above, I hope both sides get it sorted satisfactorily.
T
EarL
Posts: 6049
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:18 am

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by EarL »

3sgte wrote:
3S Service Centre wrote:
Who o why o why would anyone of Peters experience put the pistons back in if the looseness in the pistons was so

bad it would create more than acceptable slap, afterall with the crank out, a quick hone and larger piston would

give a immediate fix, and surely if the customer was given the option to fix whilst the crank is out i find it hard

to beleive he would accept knowing what future trouble it would create if not sorted.

:(
Sorry for you Glen but is this simply not a case of caring for your hard earned better???

James


Peter would not have needed to remove the head to change the crank .i would guess he just took the gearbox off and

sump/cambelt /oilpump and done it with engine in situ

as for not test driving a 7.5k car ,well hate to say it but my dad always taught me
BUYER BEWARE !!!

Ok, to present the facts once and for all...

FACT 1. I was a complete and utter dipstick not insisting on test driving the car. It's a lesson learned, and unfortunately I will not be so trusting towards ANYONE in future.

FACT 2. Ben Goulding knew that the car's engine was in need of serious repair, and was suffering from piston slap, and WAS definately warned by Peter Gidden on two separate occasions about the engines issues.

FACT 3. Peter Gidden has spoken at length to me regarding Ben's car, and has corresponded with Ben/Ben's mother informing them of his findings. He has also explained to them, that what they have done is morally wrong.

FACT 4. Ben Goulding is now washing his hands of the problem, and is awaiting action from me to take him to court.

FACT 5. I am presently in the process of preparing a case to take to the small claims court to try and recoup the cost of the repair. I don't see that not taking the car for a test drive should be a valid reason for someone to be able to get away with this, and it's clear which ever way you look at it, that he has blatently decieved me in order to off-load the car without losing any money.

FACT 6. I have offered on many occasions to try and resolve this amicably, but I have met with either stony silence, or total negativity. Indeed, I am STILL open to suggestions from Ben, should he change his mind before thigs go to court.

FACT 7.The small claims court process will cost me £80 to persue. If I lose, I will have to pay Ben Goulding the cost of taking him to court, which in this case is a further £80. If he loses on the other hand, he will be liable to pay the full cost of the vehicles repair, which has been quoted at £1700 minimum, plus the £80 it cost me to persue him in the first place.

Finally, despite me asking many times, Ben has totally and utterly refused to ever answer the question, "Do you really think what you have done to me is fair?".

I see this as an admission of certain guilt.

I thank you for your support, and will update this thread again when and if I have any news.

Regards,

EarL.
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by Dale_V »

Take him to the cleaners :) , good luck earl
peterc
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: essex

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by peterc »

Here Here shame its you that this has happened to but try to follow it through.good luck
ferrit
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:15 am
Location: Bamber Bridge/Lancs
Contact:

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by ferrit »

Good luck!
EarL
Posts: 6049
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:18 am

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by EarL »

A quick update...

Got a phone call from Peter Gidden in the week, who I must say, has been extremely helpful throughout this issue.

He said that Ben's mother had been in touch, and had finally come to her senses, and agreed to contribute half to the cost of the repair. I was really pleased that she had taken some responsibility (would have been nice if it had been Ben, but who was I to moan), and held her hand up.

The payment was to be made to whom ever I chose to do the repair under the condition that I made an apology for accusing Ben for knowingly not replied to any of my acusations, when he was out of the country. It was explained to me that it had been Ben's mother Gina that had logged on and made the replies.

I agreed to this, and waited for Peter to draught up the agreement for both myself and Gina to sign.

I waited...

Nothing.

I again heard from Peter a couple of days ago. He was absolutely fuming, and played me a message that Ben's mum Gina had left for him. In it she said that she had changed her mind, and would no longer be contributing to the cost of the repair, as a family friend had advised her not to (or words similar to those).

Peter was tamping as a couple of days earlier, she had been on the phone to him in tears, for well over an hour.

The upshot of this is, Peter has now spoken to his solicitor, and has found out that Ben is liable to be prosecuted for deception, as the car's resale value would have been effected by the engines condition. The resale value of the car in the condition it was in at the time of the exchange was around £3000, but he had advertised it for £7500, knowing full well that engine was damaged. However, the Integra's condition was perfect, and was worth around £8000 at that time. Therefore, Ben will be sued either for the difference between the price of the cars, or to re-exchange the vehicles back. The latter is not an option I want to take, as I really do want to keep the MR2, so it looks like Ben will be on the losing end of a compensatory payment.

Furthermore, Peter has offered to appear in court and provide evidence, as he on more than one occasion, warned Ben of the engines problem, and also explained this in writing to Ben's mother Gina.

I feel quite confident now that between Peter and myself, we have enough evidence to win this case quite conclusively.

I just wish that Ben had owned up in the first place. It would have cost him (or Gina) a lot less.

EarL.
JeffD
Posts: 3575
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: North West

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by JeffD »

EarL, I think whats happened to you is very sad and I dont blame you for being upset. However, since you bought from a Private seller and not a trader your legal position is very weak indeed - I really would recommend you check the link I posted from Citizens Advice. In summary: if the car has been mis-described in the advert (what was spoken verbally is immaterial as it can not be proved) ie. it says "runs perfect", "engine doesnt have any faults" etc then your onto a winner, otherwise I think you will loose. So if I was you I would check the original advert or any written correspondence with Ben very, very carefully before you proceed further.

If your going to go down that route I would do it through the County Court as opposed to involving solicitors as it will only cost you about £50 instead of a small fortune. I think the 'legal' advice youve been given is nonsense, especially the bit about the values of the car implying it is in perfect condition. Be careful about who you choose as a witness - dont forget that Peter was shamed by Ben about the length of time that this repair took, has underwritten the repair of this vehicle in the advert, has done what is a non-sensical repair IMO rebuilding the bottom end without addressing this issue and is quoting quite a sum to repair it. The court may well interpret this as a stitch up by someone. At the very least get a proper estimate from someone qualified properly.

Remember, courts see this thing all the time and basicly put aside your emotional feelings and stick with just provable facts - if they dont people just start appealing! :-(

A very, very sad do all round and I do hope you get it sorted :-)
Peter Gidden
IMOC Affiliated Trackday Organiser
Posts: 10506
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:49 am
Location: South Yorkshire

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by Peter Gidden »

JeffD wrote:dont forget that Peter was shamed by Ben about the length of time that this repair took


Relevence to Glen's claim? Zero.

JeffD wrote:has underwritten the repair of this vehicle in the advert


No i haven't - i simply guaranteed the work we carried out. Problem with that?.

JeffD wrote:has done what is a non-sensical repair IMO rebuilding the bottom end without addressing this issue


I did no more than carry out my customer's precise instructions following detailed discussions regarding options open to him. Problem with that?

JeffD wrote:is quoting quite a sum to repair it.


£1700 for engine out, strip down, rebore, supply replacement forged pistons, rebuild and refit. Your price is?

:roll:

The advice i received is essentially as follows: If Glen decides to go to Court, to have any prospect of success, he would have to prove he was deceived in the purchase, as opposed to buying correctly described goods which at a later date he decides is not what he expected/predicted he had bought.


On a separate note i have contacted Glen regarding my conversation with him as certain parts need rephrasing.
JeffD
Posts: 3575
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: North West

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by JeffD »

Peter wrote:
The advice i received is essentially as follows: If Glen decides to go to Court, to have any prospect of success, he would have to prove he was deceived in the purchase, as opposed to buying correctly described goods which at a later date he decides is not what he expected/predicted he had bought
Still wrong I'm afraid in the eyes of the law. Its really simple - if you can PROVE you were mislead (usually by means by something written such as the advert) you can claim compensation - usually the cost of fixing the car - something you would reasonably be expected to provide more than one quote for. The say so of a mechanic will hold no weight in the eyes of the court and from what Ive pointed out about your relationship with the whole affair would actually be dterimental to his case.

EarL - speak to Citizens Advice plus most real lawyers will give you about 1/2 hours free advice which will most probably be along the lines of what I have already pointed out. Youve been done over once, dont let it happen again with woolly legal advice from some armchair lawyer.
Leon.
Posts: 12780
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:35 pm
Location: Guildford, Surrey

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by Leon. »

Very sorry to hear this Earl, hope it gets resolved without you losing out :neutral:
pie muncher

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by pie muncher »

sorry to hear you have been ripped off, i bought an rs turbo once in good faith with a "freshly rebuilt motor", turns out the cam was knackered and i too had bad piston slap. My only saving grace was it was stolen and burnt out some weeks later, hope you get your money back, its a sick feeling knowing you have been ripped off :cry:
tonigmr2
IMOC Committee
Posts: 18054
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:30 pm
Location: Here

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by tonigmr2 »

JeffD wrote:

EarL - speak to Citizens Advice plus most real lawyers will give you about 1/2 hours free advice which will most probably be along the lines of what I have already pointed out. Youve been done over once, dont let it happen again with woolly legal advice from some armchair lawyer.


Earl this is along the lines of advice I have already pointed out - JeffD is right, you are on very shakey ground. Believe me once you are in a court and the other side presents their belief in the case your story will not be taken as having more value than theirs. You may feel you are in the right, morally, but the law does not work on morals.

Peter - am sorry to say that if Ben did have a disagreement with you over your work on the car then the relevance is 100%. It will be used to discredit your word on the matter. Again as above, the law doesn't know right from wrong sadly. Don't confuse it with justice!! :shock:
T
Kenny-Boost
Posts: 697
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:33 am
Location: Ayrshire

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by Kenny-Boost »

Sorry to kick up an old thread guys!

But any more news on this, every time i view IMOC i think about the s*itty situation earl is in.

I'd also like to say its great that peter is helping out with this matter, i can only hope that if i was in such a situation someone would do something like that for me.

I think it will be pretty clear in court that earl has been decieved.
wiggee
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:26 pm

Re: '95 Mr2 Gts Rev3 In Yellow, must go! ***SOLD***

Post by wiggee »

dnt know if your reading this but earl my friend has had a similar situation with a glanza he bought being in good faith etc it was an engine failure being hidden.

He had to seek legal advice also, as there was no reciept and just the sellers description backed up by a garage who say the work was quoted for but never done. :thumleft: The court ruled in his favour , the seller had to put in a fresh engine (( cover costs )) and he obtained all court costs and some but not alot of comp.

hopefully something possitive in the end :thumleft:
Post Reply

Return to “MR2s for Sale”