Suggeston for For Sale Ads

[JeffD]

A few times when reading adveerts for cars people miss out what I consider pretty vital info eg. milage, age etc. Why dont we have a standard list of information of info which must be given in an advert with some kind of template? Bearing in mind what has just happened with a couple of members disputing the condition of a car some sort of declaration of condition of car would be good too? A very shortened (fictional) example is below but I'm imagininbg something a bit more comprehensive (might deter the rogues/scammers too).


Model: SW20
Import: Yes
Roof Type: T-Bar
Engine: 3SGTE Turbo
Transmission: Manual
Year: 1995
Revision: 3
Milage: 70,000
Colour: Red
Trim: Leather
Taxed until: 02/2008
MOT Until: 01/2008
Previous owners: 3
Ever an Insurance Writeoff: No

Modifications: Mongoose Exhaust/Apeci Air Filter

Condition of:
Engine: Fine - doesnt smoke

Suspension: Bit of a rattle maybe droplinks.

Transmission and gearbox: Slightly notchy in 1st when cold
Electrical: Good

Bodywork: Stone chips on front bumper and small parking dent on rear wing.

Location: N/E London
Preferred contact method: PM
Price: £3,000
Preferred method of payment: Bankers draft

etc etc - we could make iot pretty comprehensive and if anyone has "mis-decribed" a car its there for the record?

Wot you reckon?

[KrisMoyse]

Sounds good to me matey.

A universal form of some sort for car sales.

I'd add one too:

Instead of 'Ever an insurance write-off?', I'd put 'Any accidents/collisions' or something along those lines.

And also 'Any Repairs?'

Good idea though, especially if you're looking for something specific for instance: Location. Would be a lot easier to find this way rather than having to read each ad all the way through.

[JeffD]

Good point Kris :-)

Ive also thought about adding:

V5 Present: Yes/No
V5 Registerd to you: Yes/No
How long have you owned car: Years Months

So if someone has only owned car a week and its not registered to them you can fill in belkow correctly LOL!

Alarm bells ringing: Yes!

Anyone else have any ideas/views etc

[KrisMoyse]

Timing Belt changed?: YES / NO - if YES DD/MM/YY

Clutch changed?: YES / NO - if YES DD/MM/YY

Any oil leaks in engine bay? YES / NO - if YES please state where _______

Rocker Cover Gasket changed? YES / NO - if YES DD/MM/YY

Head Gasket changed?: YES / NO - if YES DD/MM/YY

Date of last service: DD/MM/YY

Signs of rust/corrosion?: YES / NO - if YES please state where _______

[JeffD]

Thats the sort of stuff - must dig my AA report out - I think it would give good protection to both buyer and seller and add respect and value to cars sold through club :-)

[Rhiannan]

I think that is a brilliant idea

[LimeyMk1]

Looks like a very good idea Jeff, but it's still very much a case of buyer beware unfortunately.

Sure Alex'll be along in a bit to shed some light on the feasibility of it.

[Tiamat]

Looks like a very good idea Jeff, but it's still very much a case of buyer beware unfortunately.

Sure Alex'll be along in a bit to shed some light on the feasibility of it.

It is buyer beware - plus they may not have all the information.

To be honest - if its not in the advert then it does not mean you can reject the sale later on. The sellers are under no obligation to put that much information into any advert elsewhere and if you buying one then you need to satisfy yourself that its as advertised.

Most people will nto put that much in - as they do not want to scare a potential buyer away, also they don't want to be accussed of omitting something.

The more you put in, the more you can be accussed of omitting something - if you buying from an IMOC member - treat it as if you buying from a total stranger - look out for yourself, don't assume they are telling you everything.

[JeffD]

The more you put in, the more you can be accussed of omitting something

This is why I wopuld like to have a standard list where all questions must be answered so you cant just list the good bits and convienetly forget about the fact the clutch has slips, engine smokes etc.

I just thought it may give a bit of quality asurance for members buying each opther cars and in the instance that gave me the idea should of been listed or would of given redress for mis-representation.

btw not taking sides in that issue as I dont know all the facts :-)

[Speedy]

Looks like a very good idea Jeff, but it's still very much a case of buyer beware unfortunately.

Sure Alex'll be along in a bit to shed some light on the feasibility of it.

Er.. for the idea, and a to the possiblity of implementing it on the forums quickly. Would require a fairly hefty mod to be made on top of another mod

[JeffD]

I thoiught that may be the case but could we not have the blank template as a sticky at the top then people could cut and paste it into their post, delete the irrelevant bits then just paste it into their own post?

eg template:
Model: AW11,SW20,Roadster
Roof Type: T-Bar, TinTop, Moonroof, Soft Top
Engine: N/A, Turbo, V6, SuperCharger

after editing and pasting:
Model: SW20
Roof Type: T-Bar
Engine: Turbo
etc etc

[Speedy]

I thoiught that may be the case but could we not have the blank template as a sticky at the top then people could cut and paste it into their post, delete the irrelevant bits then just paste it into their own post?

eg template:
Model: AW11,SW20,Roadster
Roof Type: T-Bar, TinTop, Moonroof, Soft Top
Engine: N/A, Turbo, V6, SuperCharger

after editing and pasting:
Model: SW20
Roof Type: T-Bar
Engine: Turbo
etc etc

You certainly could.. although there would be no way of enforcing it..

[JeffD]

Ok, I will do one tonight/tomorrow based upon an AA inspection Report/Ebay info and various other sources of advice and we could give it a go! We could encourage people to use it....

[Speedy]

Ok, I will do one tonight/tomorrow based upon an AA inspection Report/Ebay info and various other sources of advice and we could give it a go! We could encourage people to use it....

Coolio, make it so

[JeffD]

CAR DETAILS
===========
Price: £
Accepted methods of payment: Direct Bank Transfer, Cash, Bankers Draft, Cheque, Paypal

Model: AW11,SW20,Roadster
Engine: N/A,SuperCharger,Turbo
Transmission: Auto/Manual
Roof Type: Tintop, TBar, Moon Roof, Soft Top
Colour: Red, White etc
Import: Yes, No
Year/Revision:
Mileage:
Is milage correct (explain if No): Yes, No
Security System: Cat1, Cat2
Anti-Lock Brakes (ABS): Yes, No
Traction Control: Yes, No
Limited Slip Differential (LSD): Yes, No
Power Assisted Steering: Yes, No
Airbags: None, Driver Only, Both Driver and Passenger
Air conditioning: Yes/No
Remote Central locking: Yes, No
Folding mirrors: Yes, No
In-car entertainment: CD, DVD etc
Modifications: Air filter, Body Kit, SS Exhaust

[PLACE PHOTO LINKS HERE]

OWNERSHIP DETAILS
=================
V5 Present: Yes, No
Are you the registered keeper (explain if No): Yes, No
Number of previous owners including yourself:
How long have you owned vehicle: Years Months
Reason for selling:
MOT Expires: dd/mm/yyyy
Tax Expires: dd/mm/yyyy

GENERAL CONDITION
=================
Is there any evidence of bodywork repairs (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Give detail of any of paintwork condition ie. fading, rust, chips, dents:

SERVICING
=========
Service history (explain): Yes, No
Date, mileage and by whom last service was done:
Date,mileage and by whom last cambelt change was done at: mm/yyyy
Do you have receipts for parts, work carried out, old MOTs etc (give details if Yes): Yes, No
Give details of any repairs made to car:
Have you been advised by a garage of any repairs that should be made (explain if Yes): Yes, No

ENGINE
======
Any leaks (either oil or water) from engine (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Has any part of the engine been rebuilt ie. bottom end, new headgasket etc (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Any unusual noise from engine (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Any smoking from engine (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Does engine pull smoothly without misfires or flatspots through all rev ranges (explain if No): Yes, No
Does engine start easily when either hot or cold (explain if No): Yes, No
Detail any problems with engine not mentioned above you may be aware of:

TURBO (IF FITTED)
=================
Turbo operates correctly (explain if No): Yes, No
Standard or aftermarket turbo fitted (give details if aftermarket): Standard/Aftermarket
Detail any other modifications to turbo system such as coolers, boost controllers etc:

EXHAUST
=======
Exhaust system including mountings in good condition (explain if No): Yes, No
Is a catalytic converter fitted: Yes, No
If a catalytic converter is NOT fitted is one required to pass an MOT for this car: Yes, No, n/a

RADIATOR AND COOLING
====================
Are there any leaks from either radiator or cooling system pipes (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Are there any overheating problems (explain if Yes): Yes, No

TRANSMISSION
============
Gearbox operates correctly through all gears including reverse (explain if No): Yes, No
Any noise or vibration from transmission in any gear (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Any leaks from transmission (explain if Yes): Yes, No

CLUTCH
======
Can gear changes be made easily and smoothly (explain if No): Yes, No
Any unusual noise such as whining from clutch (explain if Yes): Yes, No

ELECTRICAL
==========
Do all the lights (sidelights, headlamps, indicators, hazard and reverse) operate correctly (explain if No): Yes, No
If fitted popup headlamps work properly: Yes, No, n/a
Horn sounds: Yes, No
Windscreen wiper works: Yes, No
Both power windows work: Yes, No
Heating and ventilation system work properly: Yes, No
Interior lights including dashboard all light: Yes, No
Speedometer and rev counter work: Yes, No
Do all other gauges such as temperature, turbo, voltmeter, fuel etc gauges work (explain if No): Yes, No
Are there any problems with battery or alternator that require the car to be charged with a battery charger: Yes, NO

TYRES
=====
Driver Front : (Make/Size/Tread Depth/Evenly worn)
Passenger Front: (Make/Size/Tread Depth/Evenly worn)
Driver Rear : (Make/Size/Tread Depth/Evenly worn)
Passenger Rear : (Make/Size/Tread Depth/Evenly worn)


BRAKING
=======
Handbrake operates correctly and stops car rolling (explain if No): Yes, No
Brakes operate correctly and car stops in straight line when brakes are applied (explain if No): Yes, No
ABS working correctly if fitted: Yes, No, n/a

SUSPENSION AND STEERING
=======================
Does car drive in a straight line: Yes, No
Are spring and shock absorbers in good condition without leaks (explain if No): Yes, No
Are there any knocks, noises etc from suspension or steering at LOW speeds (explain if Yes): Yes, No
Are there any knocks, noises etc from suspension or steering at HIGH speeds (explain if Yes): Yes, No
If power steering is fitted does it work correctly: Yes, No
Generally, does the car handle well (explain if No): Yes, No


BODYWORK
========
Both seatbelts work correctly including any warning lights (explain if No): Yes, No
Door locks including remote key fob if applicable work properly (explain if No): Yes, No
Type of seats: Cloth, Leather, 1/2 leather/Alacanthra
Detail any damage to interior trim such as cigarette burns, scratches, worn seat bolsters etc:

[JeffD]

So if I was selling my own car It would look like this (BTW I AM NOT SELLING MY CAR - ITS JUST AN EXAMPLE!!!!!)

CAR DETAILS
===========
Price: £99,999
Accepted methods of payment: Direct Bank Transfer, Cash

Model: SW20
Engine: N/A
Transmission: Auto
Roof Type: Tintop
Colour: White
Import: Yes
Year/Revision: 1994 Rev3
Mileage: 143,000 KM/89,000 miles
Is milage correct (explain if No): Yes
Security System: Professionaly installed Cat2
Anti-Lock Brakes (ABS): No
Traction Control: No
Limited Slip Differential (LSD): No
Power Assisted Steering: Yes
Airbags: None
Air conditioning: Yes
Remote Central locking: Yes
Folding mirrors: Yes
In-car entertainment: JVC MP3 CD
Modifications: Apexi Air Filter, Bluflame SS Exhaust, UK style front plate, clear sidelight and indicators, de-toblerones, Rev5 Spoiler, Rev5 wheels, turbo engine lid, aeroware front lip, toms side skirts and rear bumper.





OWNERSHIP DETAILS
=================
V5 Present: Yes
Are you the registered keeper (explain if No): No - registered to my wife
Number of previous owners including yourself: 2
How long have you owned vehicle: 2 Years 11 Months
Reason for selling: I'm NOT its just a test!
MOT Expires: 16/11/2008
Tax Expires: 31/05/2008

GENERAL CONDITION
=================
Is there any evidence of bodywork repairs (explain if Yes): No
Give detail of any of paintwork condition ie. fading, rust, chips, dents: Excellent except for Slight rusting on underside of bottom lip on drivers door.

SERVICING
=========
Service history (explain): Yes - serviced by self, platinum plugs, genuine Toyota dizzy cap, rotor arm etc
Date, mileage and by whom last service was done:
Date,mileage and by whom last cambelt change was done at: 12/2004 82,630 miles
Do you have receipts for parts, work carried out, old MOTs etc (give details if Yes): Yes - all old MOTs and receipts for evry part bought - big folder about 1" thick
Give details of any repairs made to car: Toyota drop links and ARB bushes. Replacement power steering rack, ball joints, TRD heavy duty topmounts, replaed popup motors.
Have you been advised by a garage of any repairs that should be made (explain if Yes): No

ENGINE
======
Any leaks (either oil or water) from engine (explain if Yes): Yes Slight oil leak from cam cover.
Has any part of the engine been rebuilt ie. bottom end, new headgasket etc (explain if Yes): No
Any unusual noise from engine (explain if Yes): No
Any smoking from engine (explain if Yes): No
Does engine pull smoothly without misfires or flatspots through all rev ranges (explain if No): No
Does engine start easily when either hot or cold (explain if No): Yes
Detail any problems with engine not mentioned above you may be aware of: None.

TURBO (IF FITTED)
=================
Turbo operates correctly (explain if No): n/a - not fitted
Standard or aftermarket turbo fitted (give details if aftermarket): Standard/Aftermarket
Detail any other modifications to turbo system such as coolers, boost controllers etc:

EXHAUST
=======
Exhaust system including mountings in good condition (explain if No): Yes its a Blueflame SS exhaust
Is a catalytic converter fitted: No
If a catalytic converter is NOT fitted is one required to pass an MOT for this car: Yes and have kept old catalytic converter

RADIATOR AND COOLING
====================
Are there any leaks from either radiator or cooling system pipes (explain if Yes): No
Are there any overheating problems (explain if Yes): No

TRANSMISSION
============
Gearbox operates correctly through all gears including reverse (explain if No): Yes
Any noise or vibration from transmission in any gear (explain if Yes): No
Any leaks from transmission (explain if Yes): Yes, No

CLUTCH
======
Can gear changes be made easily and smoothly (explain if No): Yes auto box
Any unusual noise such as whining from clutch (explain if Yes): No

ELECTRICAL
==========
Do all the lights (sidelights, headlamps, indicators, hazard and reverse) operate correctly (explain if No): Yes
If fitted popup headlamps work properly: Yes - recently refurbed hinges and replaced motors
Horn sounds: Yes
Windscreen wiper works: Yes
Both power windows work: Yes
Heating and ventilation system work properly: Yes
Interior lights including dashboard all light: Yes
Speedometer and rev counter work: Yes
Do all other gauges such as temperature, turbo, voltmeter, fuel etc gauges work (explain if No): Yes
Are there any problems with battery or alternator that require the car to be charged with a battery charger: No

TYRES
=====
Driver Front : Champiro 195/55/R15 6mm evenly worn
Passenger Front: Champiro 195/55/R15 6mm evenly worn
Driver Rear : Champiro 225/50/R15 6mm evenly worn
Passenger Rear : Champiro 225/50/R15 6mm evenly worn

BRAKING
=======
Handbrake operates correctly and stops car rolling (explain if No): Yes but rubber seals perished so sometimes sticks in freezing weather
Brakes operate correctly and car stops in straight line when brakes are applied (explain if No): Yes
ABS working correctly if fitted: n/a

SUSPENSION AND STEERING
=======================
Does car drive in a straight line: Yes
Are spring and shock absorbers in good condition without leaks (explain if No): Yes but both front gators perished
Are there any knocks, noises etc from suspension or steering at LOW speeds (explain if Yes): No
Are there any knocks, noises etc from suspension or steering at HIGH speeds (explain if Yes): No
If power steering is fitted does it work correctly: Yes
Generally, does the car handle well (explain if No): Yes

BODYWORK
========
Both seatbelts work correctly including any warning lights (explain if No): Yes
Door locks including remote key fob if applicable work properly (explain if No): Yes
Type of seats: 1/2 leather/Alacanthra
Detail any damage to interior trim such as cigarette burns, scratches, worn seat bolsters etc: Driver's bolster has usual light wear otherwise very good condition

[Slarty]

You want £99,999 for a car with an oil leak?

It's a fantastic idea Jeff, and (potentially ) a great advert, but I honest to god think it'd be un moderatorable (if that's a word)

If Carlseberg made car adverts.......

[JeffD]

There are 2 other uses for the template Ive not mentioned...

1) You can use it to email someone to ask about a car

2) You can print it off and take it with you to go inpsect a car and use it as a crib sheet for your own inpection - after all its based quite closely on the car inpsections the AA do.

Personally, I think it could be moderated - any for sale adverts that are not in that format get removed - simple! LOL

As these cars get older their likely to have more and more faults - I think the recent problems experienced are sadly going to become more frequent :-(

[BLZ-8027]

Sounds like a good idea but maybe not so in detail, a standard format possibly, like when selling on e bay?
After all one persons interpretation of a problem is different to another's
Im not a mechanic so wouldn't know for sure that the knocking from the front is the drop links, and not the suspension top mounts so could cause problems if i then changed the drop links and found the problem still there (seller told me a lie)
CAVEOT EMPTOR -Buyer Beware at the end of the day