Tim Bill and IMOC-UK

[gtech]

My apologies to GTech if my summations were incorrect. I retract any statement I may have issued.

EarL.

Very much appreciated Earl.


Graeme

[casio]

Disgusting behaviour that is helping to bring imoc into disrepute and making a mockery of the club.

Interesting sentiment. What do you think of Tim's behaviour seeing as this thread is about him, not gtech.

I think your all as bad as each other to be fair. Tim for clearly puting you in a no win situation. Also the committee here have been very cute allowing a thread like this to continue. In doing so your allowing peer pressure to decide the fate of Tim. Very cute.

[Lauren]

I think your all as bad as each other to be fair. Tim for clearly puting you in a no win situation. Also the committee here have been very cute allowing a thread like this to continue. In doing so your allowing peer pressure to decide the fate of Tim. Very cute.

The Committee have effectively been constrained by legal implications. Anna asked Tim if he minded us posting all the communications on the forum, which incidentally we'd love to do, so that everyone can see the full details and draw their own conclusions. Tim refused permission to do this and we have to respect that.

So we haven't been 'cute' at all. A result of the members not having all the information is that they will generally jump to conclusions. Some will conclude correctly others may not. If the discussion on this thread is within the rules then we have no issue letting it run.

[Tiamat]

I'll add to Lauren's comments. If the thread is not allowed to run then usually in cases where full facts are not known, then threads start randomly all over the place - at least here they are known and monitored.

Besides if people have a proble then there is the report post button, also the thread is reguarly reviewed for moderation purposes.

[casio]

I think your all as bad as each other to be fair. Tim for clearly puting you in a no win situation. Also the committee here have been very cute allowing a thread like this to continue. In doing so your allowing peer pressure to decide the fate of Tim. Very cute.

The Committee have effectively been constrained by legal implications. Anna asked Tim if he minded us posting all the communications on the forum, which incidentally we'd love to do, so that everyone can see the full details and draw their own conclusions. Tim refused permission to do this and we have to respect that.

So we haven't been 'cute' at all. A result of the members not having all the information is that they will generally jump to conclusions. Some will conclude correctly others may not. If the discussion on this thread is within the rules then we have no issue letting it run.

Of course you have been cute. You are allowing certain members in this thread to do your dirty work for you. You banned Tim. You then let him back on and in doing so destroyed your credibility as an authority here.
This club has become a laughing stock on other forums as a result of this sordid little tale.
If the only people in full posession of the facts are yourselves and Tim then why let this thread run if everyone else not party to all the facts are allowed to post?
Because your allowing certain individuals here to do your dirty work for you.

The fact that certain key players in this sorry episode will not release the information for all your members to see suggests very dark things happened behind the scenes.
It does not really matter now who was in the right or wrong, that has in itself become a side show. Your members have a right to know what happened. If they are not allowed to be given the facts then this thread is pointless and should be locked to prevent yours and Tim's reputations from being damaged any further.

[Tiamat]

I think your all as bad as each other to be fair. Tim for clearly puting you in a no win situation. Also the committee here have been very cute allowing a thread like this to continue. In doing so your allowing peer pressure to decide the fate of Tim. Very cute.

The Committee have effectively been constrained by legal implications. Anna asked Tim if he minded us posting all the communications on the forum, which incidentally we'd love to do, so that everyone can see the full details and draw their own conclusions. Tim refused permission to do this and we have to respect that.

So we haven't been 'cute' at all. A result of the members not having all the information is that they will generally jump to conclusions. Some will conclude correctly others may not. If the discussion on this thread is within the rules then we have no issue letting it run.

Of course you have been cute. You are allowing certain members in this thread to do your dirty work for you. You banned Tim. You then let him back on and in doing so destroyed your credibility as an authority here.
This club has become a laughing stock on other forums as a result of this sordid little tale.
If the only people in full posession of the facts are yourselves and Tim then why let this thread run if everyone else not party to all the facts are allowed to post?
Because your allowing certain individuals here to do your dirty work for you.

The fact that certain key players in this sorry episode will not release the information for all your members to see suggests very dark things happened behind the scenes.
It does not really matter now who was in the right or wrong, that has in itself become a side show. Your members have a right to know what happened. If they are not allowed to be given the facts then this thread is pointless and should be locked to prevent yours and Tim's reputations from being damaged any further.

Your comments have been noted.
The thread will be allowed to continue.

[Lauren]

Of course you have been cute. You are allowing certain members in this thread to do your dirty work for you. You banned Tim. You then let him back on and in doing so destroyed your credibility as an authority here.
This club has become a laughing stock on other forums as a result of this sordid little tale.
If the only people in full posession of the facts are yourselves and Tim then why let this thread run if everyone else not party to all the facts are allowed to post?
Because your allowing certain individuals here to do your dirty work for you.

The fact that certain key players in this sorry episode will not release the information for all your members to see suggests very dark things happened behind the scenes.
It does not really matter now who was in the right or wrong, that has in itself become a side show. Your members have a right to know what happened. If they are not allowed to be given the facts then this thread is pointless and should be locked to prevent yours and Tim's reputations from being damaged any further.

It is your opinion that we have been 'cute'. There is no 'dirty' work to be done here. Other than what we can't post for legal reasons the committee has nothing to hide, so we'll let the thread run as long as it remains inside of the rules of the forums

All members are allowed their opinion there is nothing wrong with that in itself. I think it very much matters who is right and wrong. We'd absolutely love to post all our communications with Tim, but we can't and thats how it is. I totally agree our members have a right to know what happenned and i would dearly love to put the record straight. However as has been said we have asked Tim if we can do this and he has refused. We have to respect that.

I honestly don't think this thread is doing anything to damage our reputation as a club and to be frank i don't think that is a relevant point as people will think what they will think anyway.

I don't agree that the thread should be locked, it will get discussed on the forum, much better to keep it in one place.

A question for you. Who are you?

[splashnatz]

... maybe a leak to the press .... - watergate stylee

[markiii]

well if one party is happy to disclose the situation fully and one is not

inferences as to why will always run rife.

so unless those details are so bad as to be worse than any inferences drawn Tim is doing himself no favours keeping this from being published.

The only way to stop people drawing potentially wrog conclusion is to publish.

[EdMR2]

I've already told everyone whats happened.

Tim was allowed back on because of the wording of the terms and conditions contract, money was paid to be come and affiliate making which made it contractal based.

You go on about how the rules are so important, all hes done is abide by your rules and now you don't like it.

Icsononove you can stop hinting to cause problems as well, if you got of your behind and sorted out the problems which resulted to Tim's ban this wouldn't have happened, instead of repling to emails with "Stop wasting admins time", yet as soon as a similar situation happens involving tim your quick enough to react and ban him.

And don't make out i don't know the full story i know it better than anyone, i've been around this since it first developed and seen everything with my own 2 eyes.

Any legal involvement was recommended to be sent because of legal advice, swap the situation if Tim didn't send out a product everyone on here would have no problem seeking legal advice from trading standards. This is the same situation, The ban was going beyond there abilitys stated in there own rules, they weren't following there own rules.

Because of this the committee obviously have it in for Tim now regardless of his good intensions to coming back to this club, He came back to help people and to show he can change. After all the hours help he's given the people on this forum in the past for no charge, hes made 1 mistake and hes been treated like a criminal.

I can also understand why hes not published all the details of this, hes done nothing wrong, part of the agreement for him coming back to the forums was that this wouldn't be descussed on the forums and everything to be kept quiet so the committee wouldn't lose face, this was obviously broken straight away when the committee published everything in the affiliates section where a "no-name" affiliate thats been involved from the start has been causing more trouble again behind the scenes.

The committee has made a mockery of this whole thing, if Tim came back on and was allowed to help the people like he wanted to there wouldn't have been any problems, but the committee trying to continue a stupid vendeta has made the whole system look childish.

This will probably get removed and me banned but i don't care you've proven with this whole thing that the rules only apply to you when it suits you. Tim followed your rules to the letter and now hes being made out like hes a criminal.

Ed.

[Tiamat]

I've already told everyone whats happened.

Tim was allowed back on because of the wording of the terms and conditions contract, money was paid to be come and affiliate making which made it contractal based.

You go on about how the rules are so important, all hes done is abide by your rules and now you don't like it.

Ed, you have got it wrong there but I shan't go into further details as the Committee are treating the matter as legally priviledged, also you claim to know about it all anyway.

Icsononove you can stop hinting to cause problems as well, if you got of your behind and sorted out the problems which resulted to Tim's ban this wouldn't have happened, instead of repling to emails with "Stop wasting admins time", yet as soon as a similar situation happens involving tim your quick enough to react and ban him.

And don't make out i don't know the full story i know it better than anyone, i've been around this since it first developed and seen everything with my own 2 eyes.

Tim's ban resulted from Tim's own behaviour. Tim has openly accepted this.

Any legal involvement was recommended to be sent because of legal advice, swap the situation if Tim didn't send out a product everyone on here would have no problem seeking legal advice from trading standards. This is the same situation, The ban was going beyond there abilitys stated in there own rules, they weren't following there own rules.

Actually the ban was accepted as being correctly given Ed. Tim has openly stated this. It was to do with other matters.

Because of this the committee obviously have it in for Tim now regardless of his good intensions to coming back to this club, He came back to help people and to show he can change. After all the hours help he's given the people on this forum in the past for no charge, hes made 1 mistake and hes been treated like a criminal.

Stop lumping the Committee in together as a whole. If you do not have conclusive proof that I have it in for TIm now then I suggest you stop directing everything at the Committee as whole.

I too have given hours on this forum, does that entitle to me to anything?

I can also understand why hes not published all the details of this, hes done nothing wrong, part of the agreement for him coming back to the forums was that this wouldn't be descussed on the forums and everything to be kept quiet so the committee wouldn't lose face, this was obviously broken straight away when the committee published everything in the affiliates section where a "no-name" affiliate thats been involved from the start has been causing more trouble again behind the scenes.

Actually silence on the matter was not part of the agreement. The Committee are treating it as legally priviledged. This can be waived by the Committee if they chose to do so. Though there is no intention to do this at present.

Not everything was published in the Affiliates section, as a courtesy to the Affiliates they were informed of the situation seperately from the General Members. This is because if Tim wasallowed suddenly back on there would be a rash of enquiries with the Committee about it and would have caused bad feeling. Not everything was disclosed to the Affiliates.

The committee has made a mockery of this whole thing, if Tim came back on and was allowed to help the people like he wanted to there wouldn't have been any problems, but the committee trying to continue a stupid vendeta has made the whole system look childish.

This will probably get removed and me banned but i don't care you've proven with this whole thing that the rules only apply to you when it suits you. Tim followed your rules to the letter and now hes being made out like hes a criminal.

Ed.

Ed, you have stated lots of stuff against the Committee as a whole and I am very offended by it. You are working of half truths and not off the full information. I have no vendetta against Tim, I object to the situation that was forced upon me, but have no intention of taking it out on Tim, to imply otherwise is out of order. If you continue to make statements like that then I will taking the appropriate action personally.

Finally: If Tim had not broken the rules he agreed to adhere to then the whole situation would never have developed.

The above post is on behalf of myself and may not represent the views of the Committee.

[EdMR2]

no malcolm i saw the conversations you and tim were having you were very fair through the whole thing.

And some committee members have been responcible through this Benf has acted accordly as well, i know tim even PM'd him on his return saying thankyou for allowing me to return and he gave him word that he'd not cause problems and if there was anything he could do to contribute to the forum he had to only ask.

Yet on the other hand there are some committee members who do seem to have an axe to grind, are these acting alone because they seem to conduct themselves as they are speaking in regards of the whole committee.

Ed

[Lauren]

no malcolm i saw the conversations you and tim were having you were very fair through the whole thing.

And some committee members have been responcible through this Benf has acted accordly as well, i know tim even PM'd him on his return saying thankyou for allowing me to return and he gave him word that he'd not cause problems and if there was anything he could do to contribute to the forum he had to only ask.

Yet on the other hand there are some committee members who do seem to have an axe to grind, are these acting alone because they seem to conduct themselves as they are speaking in regards of the whole committee.

Ed

So what you are saying Ed is that you haven't seen the whole story anyway?

There are no committee members that are prejudiced against Tim. What you need to remember Ed is that Tim put himself in this situation, not from breaking the rules once but seriously infringing them on no less than four occassions.

You also have no idea how much work Tim has caused the Committee and the Moderators over the last year and a bit. We have no axe to grind, but we will uphold rules and we will not put up with these being infringed.

We have absolutely nothing to hide and would love to publish all our correspondance with Tim over the last month.

If we ban someone from the forum for their conduct which they openly admit to, the last thing we expect is for them to come back at us with legal threats.

[anna]

Yet on the other hand there are some committee members who do seem to have an axe to grind, are these acting alone because they seem to conduct themselves as they are speaking in regards of the whole committee.

Ed

Why not come out and say what you mean Ed? If you are leveling a claim of bias/prejudice/ axes to grind against Tim by a member of the committee, say so.

I have an inkling it is against me as I moderated Tim on Friday. If that is the case, say so, and I will fully account for my actions, and publish all information to do with it, with Tim's consent.

Ed - you need to distinguish between axes to grind, and moderation. It's a thankless task, and being told you are biased, or prejudiced by taking action to uphold the rules of the club is seriously IMO. Tim seems to forget the repercussions of his actions on other members of the club... you know, the ones that don't cause us any trouble...

As I said, I'm more than happy to fully publish my dealings with Tim, past present and future, and step down if there has been any misconduct.

Ed - I suggest you put up or shut up.

[EdMR2]

yes moderation is a hard job for you, and most of the committee have acted very proffesionally with all this, this amount of hassle isn't what anyone wanted.

If you want names then yes i'm saying you anna, you've been like child when her favorite toy has been take away. Tim's already said hes left the forum what more do you want!!!!!

You keep using this legal action card against him, yet even malcolm on an email to him said that no formal legal action had been filed! The emails sent to the committee were from a legal adviser to show that the removal from the forum went beyond your rules and regulations that you hold and honour so much. He's followed those rules and came back as a normal member, if you'd have followed the rules from the start this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

I also believe he went right out of his way to negotiate a situation where the committee would also be happy, he should have retained all the old username etc, but came back with a totally new one at the wishes of this club. He also stated from the start that he made a mistake and just wanted to make amends for his actions by contributing to this forum and its members.

Because the rules and regulators weren't been used in the case of tim's ban he was advised by an advisor to quote the law and consiquences so that he would be taken seriously.

Yes this might have offended certain members of the committee but he did it for the members of this club, and now it seems that certain people are set at using his efforts to get back and help the members of this club against him.

I personally feel everything thats needed to be said has been said. I've Even show and quoted the rule from your "rules" section that allowed tim to remain, the fact that he had to spell out the law to you to make you understand what you were doing was wrong is being used against him.

This is doing tim no good at all, and is making the imoc forum look a total joke in the eyes of the world. Everythings been said that needs to be said so lets just drop the whole thing, once again its turning into a free for all. Just lock and delete the thread but i'm sure you'll have to have the last word anna.

Ed.

[anna]

yes moderation is a hard job for you, and most of the committee have acted very proffesionally with all this, this amount of hassle isn't what anyone wanted.

If you want names then yes i'm saying you anna, you've been like child when her favorite toy has been take away. Tim's already said hes left the forum what more do you want!!!!!

You keep using this legal action card against him, yet even malcolm on an email to him said that no formal legal action had been filed! The emails sent to the committee were from a legal adviser to show that the removal from the forum went beyond your rules and regulations that you hold and honour so much. He's followed those rules and came back as a normal member, if you'd have followed the rules from the start this whole situation wouldn't have happened.

I also believe he went right out of his way to negotiate a situation where the committee would also be happy, he should have retained all the old username etc, but came back with a totally new one at the wishes of this club. He also stated from the start that he made a mistake and just wanted to make amends for his actions by contributing to this forum and its members.

Because the rules and regulators weren't been used in the case of tim's ban he was advised by an advisor to quote the law and consiquences so that he would be taken seriously.

Yes this might have offended certain members of the committee but he did it for the members of this club, and now it seems that certain people are set at using his efforts to get back and help the members of this club against him.

I personally feel everything thats needed to be said has been said. I've Even show and quoted the rule from your "rules" section that allowed tim to remain, the fact that he had to spell out the law to you to make you understand what you were doing was wrong is being used against him.

This is doing tim no good at all, and is making the imoc forum look a total joke in the eyes of the world. Everythings been said that needs to be said so lets just drop the whole thing, once again its turning into a free for all. Just lock and delete the thread but i'm sure you'll have to have the last word anna.

Ed.

Ed - Please post specifics, and I will address them in a fair manner.
I disagree with the majority of your points above, but unless you want to, I won't argue the toss here.

As for the allegations you have made against me personally, please present specifics. Otherwise you have the defence of speculation and rumour... otherwise known as libel.

As for Tim leaving the forum, this is not what I want at all, and yet you are more than willing to jump to that conclusion based on speculation and rumour. What I do want is for Tim to act like an adult and take responsibility for his actions. I don't think that's unreasonable, and it goes far beyond the current issue here. Tim has failed to take responsibility for his actions on numerous occasions in the past, and yet still shirks the responsibility by blaming others.

[skinthespin]

Dear Tim/Ed, (I'm sure your one in the same judging by your spelling/grammer, although you will be along shortly to correct me), in summary


The mod team spend a majority of there time dealing with Tim's issues and behaviour.

Tim broke clear forum rules FOUR times.

Tim was banned due to 3 formal warnings within 12 months.

Tim was offered help to stop this happening and to protect his affiliate status.

Tim threatened the admin team with legal action, which may have resulted in IMOC closing.

Tim came back on here under a new username anyway.

Tim forced the admin team to let him re-join as a non-affiliate.

The site is suffering due to the amount of time the admin team are spending dealing with Tim and his issues and the issue he causes.

The admin team have asked Tim if they can publish correspondence with them but HE REFUSED! (admission of guilt anyone?)

Tim did offer advice on IMOC, but then so do most affiliates and many members (myself included).

A significant proportion of the admin team would like Tim to step down and a number of members, Tim has said he will do this, will you Tim? (and not turn up again as another Ed?)

[EdMR2]

I’m talking about how it’s dragged out with your posts and making out the legal recommendations sent to the club were more than they really were.

But like you said in the name of calming things down if your willing to drop it we'll drop it.

Tim's also asked me to post this on his behalf.

"Anna you ask for me to take responsibility for my actions, this is what I’m trying to do, I've made mistakes in the past and admitted to them which was the result of me getting banned, I know I’ve caused alot of problems for the committee of this club and most have been very fair to me and for that I’m thankful.

Because of these reasons and to show to everyone I’m a changed person, that I’ll control my emotions that have lead me into trouble in the past I wanted to give something back and contribute to the club and its members the only way I know how and that’s to help with there problems and offer advice from my experiences. I've spoken to Benf when I first returned and offered my apologises and relief that this was all over and we could get on with life, I also expressed my intensions to try and contribute to this forum, if there was anything else I could do to help the staff and its member they only needed to ask.

I returned not out of spite or to make the staff look bad but only to contribute to the club that’s a large part of my hobby and I’m saying this as an individual not from a business standpoint. I've got the best intensions at heart and there’s nothing underhanded going on.

I just want to do what’s best for the club, if that includes my absence than I’ll willing go with no hard feelings

Tim"

Ed.

[EdMR2]

tim and myself aren't the same person, we've already been through this. anna and speedy have seen with there own 2 eyes we're 2 different people.

Ed.

[michael]

What's the point in the puppet master leaving if he leaves behind a puppet?

I vote that EdMR2 be removed, he's annoying.