Problem: Ross piston fitment onto standard con rods??

[ClarkeyStiles]

Firstly Doc P, the true Clarkey has the tecnical stiles of a biro weilding Insurance Saviour of the world only.

Only called up on in dire times of desperation, I rarely will offer any words of wisdom, although can tell you that suitable use of a knock O'meter such as that in picture xhibit 'whatever' above will fix your problem.

To you Sir 'CJB' * slaps* face with velvet gloves and pulls evil glare, Dr P has assumed you have tried to steal my identity from the realm of Chat. A home to some fine tuned minds, excellent wit and a significant source of mind blowing information. I would therefore suggest you vist sometime, I would reccomend debt friday as a real up up-lifter for your weekend

To the CHAT massive, Clarkey hereby refutes any such alliance with 'CJB' any genuinely good practical advice and abuse given out found to be funny, will ofcourse become my property and as such will be as if expressed by my self. Accordingly any dribble or non fuuny posts are nothing to do with me and scorn should be shown as if he were indeedy sleeping with your little sister. (not that 'little' Nev)



THE one and Only - - - - - Clarkey - - - - -

'99 Honda ATR

[CJ B]

I did register with Yahoo as CJB_MR2, can't remeber why not just CJB unless....... it was already taken!
I've already mentioned on the Wednesday Night Online Racing thread in the 'Events' section that I'm gonna change my user id as it confuses Nelo (I guess he's the kind of guy that wears slip on shoes).
As far as intellectual property goes you're welcome to it as I have no intellect and no property !

On a slightly less sensible note :- Nelo, have you phoned about your bloody pistons yet BEFORE YOU START CUTTING THEM!!!!!!!!!!?????????

[CJ B]

I just spoke with the UK distributer for Ross Pistons and they confirm the part number as correct.
They state that the piston WILL fit straight on and no machining is required.
I have emailed them the photo from this thread comparing the two pistons side by side to show the difference.
There are two possabilities:-
1. the pistons are packaged wrong and you have been sent the wrong ones
2. the pistons / rods on your car have been previously swapped and are non standard.

DONT MACHINE THEM YET!!!!!!!!!!

[SIMON W]

had same problem with my je pistons 86mm you do have to machine rods and mine are eagle rods. egle rods are same size as standerd rods my car is running garret gt 35/42 at 2 bar and it is ok

That's the first time that I've heard of someone using JEs and needed to machine the rods. Maybe it's because you've got aftermarket rods?

Can anyone else confirm that they've used JEs and not had to machine the rods?

Hi,

I fitted a set to my block a couple of weeks ago. They were a perfect fit for the standard rods.

Paul.

what size were the pistons 86.5mm buy any chance as they do differ as mine were 86mm and the standerd rod did not fit eather hope you checked gap when you fitted them min gap 0.050" eather side

[Andy F]

had same problem with my je pistons 86mm you do have to machine rods and mine are eagle rods. egle rods are same size as standerd rods my car is running garret gt 35/42 at 2 bar and it is ok

That's the first time that I've heard of someone using JEs and needed to machine the rods. Maybe it's because you've got aftermarket rods?

Can anyone else confirm that they've used JEs and not had to machine the rods?

No problems with my JE pistons and TTE rods

[Nelo]

I did register with Yahoo as CJB_MR2, can't remeber why not just CJB unless....... it was already taken!
I've already mentioned on the Wednesday Night Online Racing thread in the 'Events' section that I'm gonna change my user id as it confuses Nelo (I guess he's the kind of guy that wears slip on shoes).
As far as intellectual property goes you're welcome to it as I have no intellect and no property !

On a slightly less sensible note :- Nelo, have you phoned about your bloody pistons yet BEFORE YOU START CUTTING THEM!!!!!!!!!!?????????

But I like cutting stuff...........

Ok, firstly by amazing chance I do actually wear slip on shoes. Thanks for taking the time to ring the distributor, I didn't think there was 1 in the UK!

Secondly, no I not rang Ross Pistons USA Inc as they are based in California and I do not wipe my ars3 with fivers, as such I could not afford to ring them. However I have emailed them and await their reply, but considering they are a couple of hours behind I will have to wait till tomorrow before I hear anything back. Pistons won't be machined till I phone the machinist to give him specs and clearances....

On a more serious note, we are now taking bets on CJB Vs "Not Clarkey" for JAE 2005. Already we have MC anny who has put €50 on CJB since he thought you were a big stocking and would be able to machine pistons with your bare hands.... I suppose it doesn't help that the alledged "real clarkey" is an insurance wimp.

[Paul R]

That's the first time that I've heard of someone using JEs and needed to machine the rods. Maybe it's because you've got aftermarket rods?

Can anyone else confirm that they've used JEs and not had to machine the rods?

Hi,

I fitted a set to my block a couple of weeks ago. They were a perfect fit for the standard rods.

Paul.

what size were the pistons 86.5mm buy any chance as they do differ as mine were 86mm and the standerd rod did not fit eather hope you checked gap when you fitted them min gap 0.050" eather side

Hi,

Yes, 86.5mm. The engineering shop bored the cylinders to the pistons to ensure a snug fit .

Cheers,

Paul.

[Bender Unit]

Secondly, no I not rang Ross Pistons USA Inc as they are based in California and I do not wipe my ars3 with fivers, as such I could not afford to ring them.

Bah what are you worring about the call to the states would cost less then "those" phone lines you ring.

On a more serious note I called the Us a few days ago to impart some abuse towards an american chap and after 20 mins of shouting it only cost £1.21p! Freeking bargin. I guess the string telephones you have in Dublin are more expensive though

[MR2Mania]

what size were the pistons 86.5mm buy any chance as they do differ as mine were 86mm and the standerd rod did not fit eather hope you checked gap when you fitted them min gap 0.050" eather side

This should make no difference. With my 86.5mm pistons, the top of the piston (near the rings, etc) was the same size - it was the skirts that had "grown" to make up the bigger bore size. I would have thought that this would be the same for all pistons available.

[SIMON W]

what size were the pistons 86.5mm buy any chance as they do differ as mine were 86mm and the standerd rod did not fit eather hope you checked gap when you fitted them min gap 0.050" eather side

This should make no difference. With my 86.5mm pistons, the top of the piston (near the rings, etc) was the same size - it was the skirts that had "grown" to make up the bigger bore size. I would have thought that
for all pistons available.

je pistons 86.5mm are stock items from je to go in over size bore 86mm je pistons are not they have to be made for you wich can take 4 weeks and do differ from 86.5mm the good thing about running 86mm is that you dont make the bores two thin as they are prone for cracking inbetween number 2 and 3 on a thin wall block if you are running alot of bhp as i found out the hard way

[MR2Mania]

je pistons 86.5mm are stock items from je to go in over size bore 86mm je pistons are not they have to be made for you wich can take 4 weeks and do differ from 86.5mm the good thing about running 86mm is that you dont make the bores two thin as they are prone for cracking inbetween number 2 and 3 on a thin wall block if you are running alot of bhp as i found out the hard way

The one thing about making 86mm pistons to be thrown in to a standard block is that you are assuming the bores haven't excessively got worn or ovalled.

The thin wall problem (only applies to Rev3s - doesn't apply at all to Rev1/2 blocks) is one that I've been banging on about for a while. By selecting stock bore size pistons for the Rev engines will NOT guarantee that the block will be OK. I've several STOCK engine (never been opened before) crack the block. Bottom line is, if you want a robust built Rev3 engine, you'll have to either check that your block is not one of the suspect ones, or buy another one.

[Paul R]

je pistons 86.5mm are stock items from je to go in over size bore 86mm je pistons are not they have to be made for you wich can take 4 weeks and do differ from 86.5mm the good thing about running 86mm is that you dont make the bores two thin as they are prone for cracking inbetween number 2 and 3 on a thin wall block if you are running alot of bhp as i found out the hard way

The one thing about making 86mm pistons to be thrown in to a standard block is that you are assuming the bores haven't excessively got worn or ovalled.

The thin wall problem (only applies to Rev3s - doesn't apply at all to Rev1/2 blocks) is one that I've been banging on about for a while. By selecting stock bore size pistons for the Rev engines will NOT guarantee that the block will be OK. I've several STOCK engine (never been opened before) crack the block. Bottom line is, if you want a robust built Rev3 engine, you'll have to either check that your block is not one of the suspect ones, or buy another one.

didnt realise that about the rev3 engines......would it be sensible to get a rev1/2 block and put a rev3 head on it then ??

cheers,

Paul.

(/Hijack)

[SIMON W]

je pistons 86.5mm are stock items from je to go in over size bore 86mm je pistons are not they have to be made for you wich can take 4 weeks and do differ from 86.5mm the good thing about running 86mm is that you dont make the bores two thin as they are prone for cracking inbetween number 2 and 3 on a thin wall block if you are running alot of bhp as i found out the hard way

The one thing about making 86mm pistons to be thrown in to a standard block is that you are assuming the bores haven't excessively got worn or ovalled.

The thin wall problem (only applies to Rev3s - doesn't apply at all to Rev1/2 blocks) is one that I've been banging on about for a while. By selecting stock bore size pistons for the Rev engines will NOT guarantee that the block will be OK. I've several STOCK engine (never been opened before) crack the block. Bottom line is, if you want a robust built Rev3 engine, you'll have to either check that your block is not one of the suspect ones, or buy another one.

it does not matter wich block you have the only way you know if it is thin or thick wall is to get it x rayed and ultresounded as i bought a second hand block for a rev 2 on standerd bore size and the bores were two thin to run the bhp i wanted to (unless you have x ray eyes and you can see through metal)

[Nelo]

(unless you have x ray eyes and you can see through metal)

What if you were Clark Kent?

[MR2Mania]

it does not matter wich block you have the only way you know if it is thin or thick wall is to get it x rayed and ultresounded as i bought a second hand block for a rev 2 on standerd bore size and the bores were two thin to run the bhp i wanted to (unless you have x ray eyes and you can see through metal)

Speak to Fensport or Fraser MacKellar, as I'm sure they'd be very interested in what you're saying. You're the FIRST I've ever heard of with this problem on an early block, and they've built LOADS of engines.

Incidentally, an experienced builder of 3SGTEs can pretty much tell by the sound of tapping the walls individually, but you're right, the only surefire way to know is to get the block X-rayed, but as I say, I don't think this is an issue on the early blocks.

PaulR, yes mate. Your options are to either go for an early block and fit the later head on it (although then you will have some issues to resolve in sealing the head to block, because of the differences - speak to AndyF about this, as this is what he's had done on his engine), or to buy a new, post 1998 spec thick-walled block. I've gone for the latter...

[SIMON W]

it does not matter wich block you have the only way you know if it is thin or thick wall is to get it x rayed and ultresounded as i bought a second hand block for a rev 2 on standerd bore size and the bores were two thin to run the bhp i wanted to (unless you have x ray eyes and you can see through metal)

Speak to Fensport or Fraser MacKellar, as I'm sure they'd be very interested in what you're saying. You're the FIRST I've ever heard of with this problem on an early block, and they've built LOADS of engines.

Incidentally, an experienced builder of 3SGTEs can pretty much tell by the sound of tapping the walls individually, but you're right, the only surefire way to know is to get the block X-rayed, but as I say, I don't think this is an issue on the early blocks.

PaulR, yes mate. Your options are to either go for an early block and fit the later head on it (although then you will have some issues to resolve in sealing the head to block, because of the differences - speak to AndyF about this, as this is what he's had done on his engine), or to buy a new, post 1998 spec thick-walled block. I've gone for the latter...

this is where the info come from fensport as my block went to there engine builders to be checked speak to tony or adrain at fensport and say that you have spoke to me and they will correct you in what you are saying

[CJ B]

(unless you have x ray eyes and you can see through metal)

What if you were Clark Kent?

Do you mean Clarkey Kent??

[MR2Mania]

this is where the info come from fensport as my block went to there engine builders to be checked speak to tony or adrain at fensport and say that you have spoke to me and they will correct you in what you are saying

OK, if you insist, I will.

If you're right, I want to know about it, as it means that EVERYONE doing a 3SGTE build should have this done.

[stevecordiner]

This is a copy and paste from the GT4 forum that I put in a thread a while back regarding the thin thick walled issues - from Adrian at Fennies point of view. I'm not saying this is gospel or necessarily correct, but since they build loads of these engines its probably relevant.

BUT- notice that towards the final paragraphs, they rejected some ST185 blocks as well, = rev 1/2 blocks.

However, only toyota will know if the blocks are the same for JDM stuff as for UK. We know there are variations in heads for EGR etc.

"""Just to reiterate ......
Toyota have changed the part numbers for the 205 block, they nor TTE or TRD or anyone else will admit to there being a problem on some blocks.
The problem is generally between 2&3 cylinder although we have recently found thin areas at the rear of no4.

A thick wall block will be between 150-160 thou thick, and a thin one will be approx 110 thou.
Now the problem comes when you ask "how thick for how much BHP"
This is not an easy question to answer, my advice is don`t build any block less than 140thou unless its going to be left standard.
Measuring the block is not at all easy, best use an engineer who can ultrasound test the average thickness - I say average as - If you imagine the outer side of the cylinder is not uniform.
450whp is approx 570 flywheel which is big power in my book, I would not use any bigger than 86.25 bore on a thicker type block.

TTE group A blocks are fine, but hard to get hold of, and very expensive as you`ll need special pistons as well, the block is 3mm lower deck height.

I use a standard block as I don`t beleive tte one is the right approach for us, for one they will run out - then what do we all do? For another the expense.

Only last week we rejected two ST185 blocks for rebuild, 1 was 120thou, and the other 110 thou, this was particularily annoying as I thought they were all ok - just shows you trust no-one, and measure everything.....
Hopefully that`ll save some expensive mistakes!!!

Some people don`t believe what we say - they think we make it up to sell blocks - all I can tell you is what I have found - the rest is up to you.
Regards
Adrian "" "

[philster_d]

Nice rims