Tubby Vs New Audi RS4 (420bhp)

[llenrub]

Can't remember how to post image files / Dyno Graphs without paying through 'yousend it.com,' Can anyone help?

[LimeyMk1]

Have you got it on a photobucket type online hosting? Got a link to the picture?

[llenrub]

Dyno sheets- BHP, Torque and summary
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/smlaing/3.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/smlaing/2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/smlaing/1.jpg

On the charts I've darkened it a bit.

Boost is 1.7 Bar

[^Trickster^]

I have never seen a dyno sheet like that, did your son do it?

Where were the readings taken, dont you have a power and torque overlay?

Anyway 4250~rpm for 200ft/lbs even at the flywheel is terrible spool for an upgraded ct26. Or does it have a GT55R compressor on it?

Graeme

[nisnos]

Greame, you crack me up!
=D>

[mattcambs]

I have never seen a dyno sheet like that, did your son do it?

Where were the readings taken, dont you have a power and torque overlay?

Anyway 4250~rpm for 200ft/lbs even at the flywheel is terrible spool for an upgraded ct26. Or does it have a GT55R compressor on it?

Graeme

Not knowing any history between you guys and llenrub, I just wondered why you were ripping the p1ss out of him so much! Is he a known bullsh1t artist?!

[EarL]

Is he a known bullsh1t artist?!

Oh yeah. Big time!

Mark Edwards and Andi Martin's TT CT26's were making 1.6 bar by 3200 rpm.

Those dyno sheets look well bogus to me. Like Graeme said, If I had spent decent money to have my car dyno'd, the last thing I'd be doing is walking out without the data sheets!

I can see this thread getting good soon. Think I'll book me a front row seat.

...here come the "Hunter Checks!"

EarL.

[^Trickster^]

LMAO @ "Hunter Checks"

"Happy christmas son! heres a pack of pens, now go draw me a nice graph!"

Graeme

[stevecordiner]

traps = trapspeed on the 1/4 mile.

Its the ultimate dyno because you can't fudge physics, the higher the power, the higher the trapspeed.

Precisely!!

12.5 1/4 mile at 110mph
12.5 1/4 mile at 120mph = much more powerful car, less good driver

[skipp123]

just to point out guys, i have been to pts performance in luton and had my old saxo vts dynod by them this was the spec

std vts x plate model
ram air filter ONLY

car made 158bhp @ fly
std car makes 120bhp @ fly

so 38bhp from a filter on a n/a ha ha ha think there dyno is a bit out or they dont know what there doing...

[^Trickster^]

lol mint, I might take my mr2 there and push it over the 600hp mark without any extra mods..... cushty

[blueorb]

BHP doesn't always translate into on road power.

I raced a BMW M6 a little while back in my standard Rev 2 Turbo (Should be making about 210 -220 bhp) He was definately gunning it but was only just pulling away from me. After about 60mph it was more noticable, but I was suprised that a monster of a car like the BMW didn't leave me for dead. I think they are running a big V10 500BHP motor.

i know the BMW is a heavy car, but even so, there wasn't much between us. I reckon with 16 psi on the turbo I would have kept with him easy.

So perhaps this guy isn't lying about the experience with the Audi, even if the BHP figures are inaccurate.

[Scotster]

I've read loads of story's on here with this same guy and all of them are a bit iffy. I'm not saying that a 300odd bhp 2 wouldn't give an RS a run for its money on a dry straight as i think it would be interesting, i think what the guys are saying is that the story is likely to be bull$h1t.

As already said though, through in a slight bend or a damp road and your a spec in his mirror. Those cars are road monsters.

Scott =op

[Lauren]

BHP doesn't always translate into on road power.

I raced a BMW M6 a little while back in my standard Rev 2 Turbo (Should be making about 210 -220 bhp) He was definately gunning it but was only just pulling away from me. After about 60mph it was more noticable, but I was suprised that a monster of a car like the BMW didn't leave me for dead. I think they are running a big V10 500BHP motor.

i know the BMW is a heavy car, but even so, there wasn't much between us. I reckon with 16 psi on the turbo I would have kept with him easy.

So perhaps this guy isn't lying about the experience with the Audi, even if the BHP figures are inaccurate.

The trouble is with road 'racing' is that you never know truly how hard the other driver is trying. Also there is teh factor of when they put their foot down.

To give an example of this i demonstrated this to Mark (boyf) when i was following an EVO3 in my 325i coupe.. Obviously the EVO is going to be quicker, but what i did was get a really good drive out of a roundabout this gave me probably 15mph on the EVO and then i could just sit behind it to X mph no problem.

Is my car faster than an EVO3? I doubt it, but i had my foot down 3 seconds before he did so he was always playing catch-up.

Also with a big car like an M6 its not going to be fantastic at relatively low speed stuff (ie below 60mph) but you can be pretty sure once it gets going its going to walk away from you from 80mph +.

This is why 90% of all "I had a race with this car and wiped the floor with it" etc are just rubbish for the most part. Its also worth remembering that it takes a massive power differential between cars to make another car look like its going backwards.

[skinthespin]

I did a trackday towards the end of the summer (dry day), there was a young lad there with a new RS4, he was a pretty decent driver too, I was in my Rev 3 turbo stripped out track car, running approx 300bhp, certainly no more.

We had a right ding dong all day, the only place he took time out of me really was on the brakes and initial traction from slow corners, on the faster corners I was pulling out significant time on him to the point he went of the track trying to keep up. Having a good chat with the guy later he was saying the thing just understeers through the quicker stuff and was suprised at the traction I had out of fast corners, but he was all over me on the brakes, down the quick straights there wasnt much in it tbh, I may have had a slight advantage but nothing to write home about.

There wasnt much in it over a lap on a dry day, although in the wet or on the road im sure I wouldnt have seen which way he went.

Interestingly there was an M5 (the 400bhp V8) there on the day and he was trying very hard, both me and the RS4 guy were quicker than him everywhere, although being a BM driver he was extremely reluctant to get out of the way, so had to out brake him, sorry!

[Andy Champ]

BHP doesn't always translate into on road power.

I raced a BMW M6 a little while back in my standard Rev 2 Turbo (Should be making about 210 -220 bhp) He was definately gunning it but was only just pulling away from me. After about 60mph it was more noticable, but I was suprised that a monster of a car like the BMW didn't leave me for dead. I think they are running a big V10 500BHP motor.

i know the BMW is a heavy car, but even so, there wasn't much between us. I reckon with 16 psi on the turbo I would have kept with him easy.

So perhaps this guy isn't lying about the experience with the Audi, even if the BHP figures are inaccurate.

The trouble is with road 'racing' is that you never know truly how hard the other driver is trying. Also there is teh factor of when they put their foot down.

I just looked up the M6 out of interest, and found:
Power: 500BHP.
Weight: 3769 lbs / 1710Kg.

That's over twice the power-to-weight ratio of a std tubby. (210 / 1300Kg-ish IIRC)

He wasn't trying.

Andy

[MR2_Turbo]

but I was suprised that a monster of a car like the BMW didn't leave me for dead.

If he was trying he would have done, i had a go with an M5 and it was in a completely different league, the way those things pull at high speed is unreal.

[Scotster]

BHP doesn't always translate into on road power.

I raced a BMW M6 a little while back in my standard Rev 2 Turbo (Should be making about 210 -220 bhp) He was definately gunning it but was only just pulling away from me. After about 60mph it was more noticable, but I was suprised that a monster of a car like the BMW didn't leave me for dead. I think they are running a big V10 500BHP motor.

i know the BMW is a heavy car, but even so, there wasn't much between us. I reckon with 16 psi on the turbo I would have kept with him easy.

So perhaps this guy isn't lying about the experience with the Audi, even if the BHP figures are inaccurate.

The trouble is with road 'racing' is that you never know truly how hard the other driver is trying. Also there is teh factor of when they put their foot down.

I just looked up the M6 out of interest, and found:
Power: 500BHP.
Weight: 3769 lbs / 1710Kg.

That's over twice the power-to-weight ratio of a std tubby. (210 / 1300Kg-ish IIRC)

He wasn't trying.

Andy

I may be wrong here with my calculations but if the car weights 1710kg and has 500bhp that means 500/1.71 will give you the BHP per tonne? If thats the case then the BM will have 292bhp per tonne and the MR2 will have 161.53bhp per tonne. Twice that is 323bhp per tonne which is considerably more. Therefor the BM is not twice the power to weight of a tubby.

Regardless of the power in the car a lot of it will be down to gearing. The M6 IIRC is geared up to almost 200mph if it isn't 200mph. This means that it needs really long ratio's which will mean the acceleration won't be as good as it could be. The MR2 has a fairly high ratio but it won't be as high as the BM so with less weight, better gearing, a few decent tweeks taking you up to around 350bhp and a bit of decent driving should see of an M6 no problem. Of course this will only be up to a certain speed when the power of the M6 will see you off. Can't estimate where but my plays with M3's have told me around the 120 mark usually does it lol.

I need to say i don't know much about racing, ratio's, BHP etc and i have only stated my opinion based on what i think.

Scott =op

[HT]

I did a trackday towards the end of the summer (dry day), there was a young lad there with a new RS4, he was a pretty decent driver too, I was in my Rev 3 turbo stripped out track car, running approx 300bhp, certainly no more.

We had a right ding dong all day, the only place he took time out of me really was on the brakes and initial traction from slow corners, on the faster corners I was pulling out significant time on him to the point he went of the track trying to keep up. Having a good chat with the guy later he was saying the thing just understeers through the quicker stuff and was suprised at the traction I had out of fast corners, but he was all over me on the brakes, down the quick straights there wasnt much in it tbh, I may have had a slight advantage but nothing to write home about.

There wasnt much in it over a lap on a dry day, although in the wet or on the road im sure I wouldnt have seen which way he went.

No offence but I'm wondering how hard a young kid tries in a £50k car - I'd be seriously worried about bending it!

[Scotster]

Trust me, young lad with new RS at a racing track has money. IMO enough not to worry about it.

Scott =op