[Mk2] [Turbo] Pist'on broke

[Century Motorsport]

yeah they arent commonly known as glaze busters - infact if you type in hone on ebay then they come up - and we alll know what ebay is like!!!

They will rough the bores but thats all- just a de glaze - hence the name glaze buster

[craig_mr2_mk1]

Just to add, if anyone is looking for a top class engine rebuild and looking for a high quality job at great prices give Century Motorsport, aka nathanfreke a call / PM.

After 12 years of running a top Kart, TVR and Formula Ford Team he is now branching out to his love of the MR2.

From what i'm hearing Early next year he will be offering all parts and accesories for MR2's and also a top class fitting service. PM him for more details.

Best of all he's based in the midlands so we have a midlands specialist now.

Craig.

[3sgte]

glaze buster /hone = same thing


http://www.efunda.com/processes/machini ... l_hone.cfm

[TBDevelopments]

ok thats fair enough, my point being that you can get a honer/what ever you want to call it fitted into a drill attachment. Like i also said previously is that its not ideal but will do the job as proven in naths engine as he fitted all his pistons with block in the car, you should also use your torque block when doing this to maintain the cyclinder shape, but not essential as this wasn't used in nathans case either.

The last picture jimbob posted as a grinding attachment for a drill, you sure this is what you use to bore 250 engines craig? or you mean the 3 legged honer?

Good luck with your "midlands Mr2 Specalist" tuning company, only suggestion is you research your skills futher to prevent to 2 engine failures you encountered in your own car from happening to someone whos put there hard earned cash your way

Also remember people like myself and rogue motorsport are midlands specalists as well, with myself being in the same town as you well know. just remember your not the first

Tim
xxxx

[TBDevelopments]

back onto the hone/glaze busters topic.

The glaze buster and hand honing tools is pretty much the same tool, the difference is the type of stone used.

The glaze buster stone is very fine and designed to add the crosshatch pattern in the cylinders without removing material for fitment of standard spec pistons. Same idea for a flexable drive honer (type will the little balls on, lol)

The “precision honer” uses different types of stones, usually a silicone carbide or aluminium oxide type stone with a coolant fluid added to remove "burnishing" which is, as the stones wear during the hone process the small peaks and ridges created by the honer become clogged. Although this can be overcome with a more progressive steps in honing stone coarseness.

The engine is usually bored to around 0.004-0.006" of metal remaining to ideal cylinder diameter including piston clearances. For moly based piston rings (believe standard type) a 280 grit stone is used to reduce the cylinder size to within 0.0015 of the final diameter, the remaining material should be removed with a 400 grit for finishing. Of course final finishing depends on piston ring combinations used. This is for race specs, OEM quality usually states around a 280grit final surface for molly based rings where chrome based rings are finalised using up to 220grit as average, Chrome-based pistons rings like the type used in JE and CP require a slightly courser grade of hone.

The crosshatch pattern should ideally be 45 degree’s to the horizontal deck surface or 22-32degree’s max. This angle should be uniform through out the cylinders. The reason for this is how the valleys (scratches) retain oil. If the angle is to steep the piston rings themselves can remove oil from the scratches creating excess wear due to lack of lubrication. If the angle is to short there unseating effect on the piston rings as they pass overtop causing improper sealing, poor compression and a lack of lubrication again from incorrect contact to the cylinder wall.

When i said about vaccum i ment vaccum seal of the piston rings against the cylinder walls. If its a vaccum seal there isn't enough lubrication created by the vallys of the crosshatch.

This is where an automatic honer comes in handy as the angle of the crosshatch to the deck surface depends on the speed of the up and down action of the honing machine. With a hand honer this takes some practice to do, but the machine is automatic giving a constant hone pattern and universal through out. Its the best way to do it but the old tried and tested method of a hand honer is still doable in the correct hands.

The crosshatch finishing coarseness is also important, if there valleys of the crosshatch aren’t deep enough the valleys won’t retain enough oil for correct lubrication,(400grit+ ) to deep and the engine will use excessive oil leaking to oil being burnt in the combustion chamber (150grit-). The smoother the cylinders the better they will seal but once again the less oil in the valleys the less oil retained leading to increased piston ring wear and engine friction heat. This is why race engines use smoother bores for increased piston-ring to cylinder wall sealing, but unless its intended for endurance ranging the piston wear isn’t a concern compared to a road engine designed to run 100,000miles plus.

Hopefully this will shed some more light on the subject, Every time we get into a debate like this I have to break open my engine build notes and resource information to prove I’m not talking out my ar$e. Lol

Thanks for reading

Tim
xxxx

[craig_mr2_mk1]

First of all Nathan has a torque plate being made as we speak to use on his thick walled block. I think Rogue said that the differance between using a torque plate and not is little to nothing even after 60k.

How many motors have you built???

Secondly, my engine failures had nothing to do with nathan. i used his unit but did all the work myself. I'll hold my hands up, i put a big end cap on the wrong way and that destroyed everything.

And at the moment i have nothing to do with nathans buisness's at the moment.

The one we use on the 250 is the one you posted up, the 3 legged spring loaded attachment.
The one we used on nathans motor is the one that jim bob posted up. Best bet is to come round and have a look mate.

When i said midlands mr2 specialist i ment one that offers a comprehensive fiting service.

Didn't mean to offend anyone.

Craig.

[MATTURBO]

this thread has made my day, and obviousley educated me

Although going of what i originally posted

But dont worry hopefully all sorted now.

[TBDevelopments]

well think the information has been displayed already craig. the glaze buster and a honer are one in the same tool just down to a different method of use and stones used.

I will admit that the 3 legged hone i posted it actually a brake hone so the engine one will be alot more heavy duty.

Tim
xxxx

ps, don't worry about how many engines i've built needless to say its more than you. but lets keep this on topic

[craig_mr2_mk1]

well i'm talking mr2 engine's not ford escort sh*te things.

anyway no need to get into a war is there?!

Craig.

[TBDevelopments]

ford engines? like your formula ford race cars

Lets leave it there shall we, keep it all peaceful.

Tim
xxxx

[Fats]

back onto the hone/glaze busters topic.

The glaze buster and hand honing tools is pretty much the same tool, the difference is the type of stone used.

The glaze buster stone is very fine and designed to add the crosshatch pattern in the cylinders without removing material for fitment of standard spec pistons. Same idea for a flexable drive honer (type will the little balls on, lol)

The “precision honer” uses different types of stones, usually a silicone carbide or aluminium oxide type stone with a coolant fluid added to remove "burnishing" which is, as the stones wear during the hone process the small peaks and ridges created by the honer become clogged. Although this can be overcome with a more progressive steps in honing stone coarseness.

The engine is usually bored to around 0.004-0.006" of metal remaining to ideal cylinder diameter including piston clearances. For moly based piston rings (believe standard type) a 280 grit stone is used to reduce the cylinder size to within 0.0015 of the final diameter, the remaining material should be removed with a 400 grit for finishing. Of course final finishing depends on piston ring combinations used. This is for race specs, OEM quality usually states around a 280grit final surface for molly based rings where chrome based rings are finalised using up to 220grit as average, Chrome-based pistons rings like the type used in JE and CP require a slightly courser grade of hone.

The crosshatch pattern should ideally be 45 degree’s to the horizontal deck surface or 22-32degree’s max. This angle should be uniform through out the cylinders. The reason for this is how the valleys (scratches) retain oil. If the angle is to steep the piston rings themselves can remove oil from the scratches creating excess wear due to lack of lubrication. If the angle is to short there unseating effect on the piston rings as they pass overtop causing improper sealing, poor compression and a lack of lubrication again from incorrect contact to the cylinder wall.

When i said about vaccum i ment vaccum seal of the piston rings against the cylinder walls. If its a vaccum seal there isn't enough lubrication created by the vallys of the crosshatch.

This is where an automatic honer comes in handy as the angle of the crosshatch to the deck surface depends on the speed of the up and down action of the honing machine. With a hand honer this takes some practice to do, but the machine is automatic giving a constant hone pattern and universal through out. Its the best way to do it but the old tried and tested method of a hand honer is still doable in the correct hands.

The crosshatch finishing coarseness is also important, if there valleys of the crosshatch aren’t deep enough the valleys won’t retain enough oil for correct lubrication,(400grit+ ) to deep and the engine will use excessive oil leaking to oil being burnt in the combustion chamber (150grit-). The smoother the cylinders the better they will seal but once again the less oil in the valleys the less oil retained leading to increased piston ring wear and engine friction heat. This is why race engines use smoother bores for increased piston-ring to cylinder wall sealing, but unless its intended for endurance ranging the piston wear isn’t a concern compared to a road engine designed to run 100,000miles plus.

Hopefully this will shed some more light on the subject, Every time we get into a debate like this I have to break open my engine build notes and resource information to prove I’m not talking out my ar$e. Lol

Thanks for reading

Tim
xxxx

What book did that lot come from?????

[TBDevelopments]

From my notes and lots of research and personal experiences I did when I started building my own engines as a hobby.

Point of the matter is that I was correct about the hone crosshatch being used for lubrication properties.

Does this mean the forum gets an apology seeing your additions to this thread were wrong and un-necessarily crude?

The cross hatch helps lubricate the top two rings by holding a thin layer of oil, preventing a vacuum is utter poo.

Tim
xxxx

[Century Motorsport]

ok thats fair enough, my point being that you can get a honer/what ever you want to call it fitted into a drill attachment

Amen.

Tim please dont try to dirty my name by making out i was involved in craigs engine rebuild. Also Craig has nothing to do with the Formula Ford engines so again - please be reserved with your comments about stuff your not clear about.

Craig also will have no involvement with my MR2 company.

the company is an exciting time for me as its something i enjoy. And with previous experiences with parts supply and fitting i hope to offer the best products avalilable and a spot on fitting service.

This will be part of my race team so obviously i will be looking into running an mr2 in the challenge.

We will chat in the week about things if you still wish to Tim.

Matt - as for your engine, if one piston has gone i would urge you to replace all four intead of just the one as the last thing you want is for you to have another failure costing more money. If the bore hasnt been damaged by the broken piston i would imagine that you will be ok with std size pistons - but obviously this needs to be checked by a bore mic. i wouldnt advise running any more than 6thou piston to bore clearance.

Good luck,

Nathan

[TBDevelopments]

well i suggest you control craig from giving "the big i am" from throwing your name around as its not doing yourself any favours.

Tim
xxxx

[Century Motorsport]

I have no control over Craig and didnt ask him to do anything of the sort.

I have been in leeds all weekend and have had no compter access - the issue is not with me.

It hasnt put me in a bad light from what he put. You have tried to bring me into something which has no involvment with me - thats what put me in a bad light.

If one of your associates came on here bigging you up i wouldnt start having a go at you would i?

[TBDevelopments]

not trying to put you in a bad light at all nath. good luck to you. all these arguments have accomplished is giving me a kick up the ar$e to get a unit ready and finally start offering fitting.

Tim
xxxx

[Century Motorsport]

And the best of luck to you too Tim

[craig_mr2_mk1]

to be fair i probably owe tim an appology. been in one of those funny moods all weekend a took it out on everyone. So i appologise to tim and we shall hear no more on the subject ok.

Craig.

[TBDevelopments]

ok craig appology accepted. I've been having a crap weekend and things getting me down.

Tim
xxxx