[All] [Generic] cellulose BAN january u sprayers out there

[nitric4k]

Lee just pointed out to me cellulose is to be banned come january next year, and everythings changing over to water bassed paints which means were not going be able buy cellulose paint.

so...... what are we going to do all of us do?

we cant use our current equipment to spray these water paints

[ryan]

What'll happen when it rains

[johnp]

i raised this problem on the forum some time ago.

despite the research i have done i am still not sure exactly what will happen....
eg cellulose undercoat will still be available but ,according to my local supplier,not thinners----so how do you thin the undercoat?

i think you can still spray water based with the same equip but a gun with stainless parts is preferable..

for obvious reasons w.b. has to be laquered--2 pack or celly---the latter again still available !---but w.b. takes an age to dry ....and picks up loads of dirt in your average garage.

celly top coat will still be available for classics (under licence !) or other things (eg boats)

i think the law still has to be finalised in the grey areas and i suspect we will end up being able to get celly....from resticted outlets and at a higher price!!

all of this totally unnecessary imo ---I agree celly is not 'green' but pro bodyshops have long ceased to use it anyway---this only affects the home
user and insignificant amounts.

ps in China there're probably using billions of gallons of 2 pack and celly but this doesn't seem to matter.

[b2hbm]

same here johnp, despite trying to find out some real facts it just seems another euro-muddle to me. There's a bit more in Classics Monthly but still far too vague.

Apparently if you have a classic which used cellulose from new, then you'll be able to get a licence to buy the stuff for restoration. But the ban starts in January (although old stocks can be sold throughout 2007) and so far there's no proposals as to how the licence scheme will be administered or what age cars it will cover - what's the betting it's only for pre-1973 cars ?

The problem won't be getting a licence, it'll be persuading a manufacturer to make small runs of base and tints, I can see it costing a fortune.

Personally I don't know any car makers using cellulose and most repair shops have used 2-pack for years, so I guess it's only a small market that it will hit, mostly home enthusiasts. That's probably why the eurocrats have decided it's an easy target to look as if they're doing something for the Green movement.

But as you say, the far east are still manufacturing agrochemicals using toluene and xylene by the tonne and that's where all the real emmision problems will come from, not me and my 5l of thinners per respray once every few years...... another case of laws being passed by unqualified people on hearsay from lobbyists without true research

[paul_h]

so is 2pack paint being banned also or just celly?

lee

[b2hbm]

o is 2pack paint being banned also or just celly?

Not sure - one source said they were but my understanding the ban was on solvents rather than the cellulose paint itself, so 2pack might well escape. I hope so 'cos waterbased paints are going to need a spray booth to keep away dust while they're drying, whereas 2pack is just about diy-able, I've even seen 2k solvent masks for short term exposure - up to 40hrs I think, which would cover most resprays.

Paints4u are saying that their 2k stuff is ok on their website, and I guess they ought to know. (they also say that cellulose is out from 2007)

http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails. ... uctID=6823

[Spittinflames]

From my understanding 2 pac and cellulose paint will be banned, its all going waterbased. Waterbased paint can be used with the same equipment but as pointed out different guns would need to be used and as also pointed out a clean room with extractors.... basically its another way on stuffing the d.i.y. guy.... any little job will need to go to a body shop.

Although the ban for the paint will come into force on a set date, you will still be able to buy it until your paint supplier runs out. So start stocking up on your favourite colour.

I think it sucks big time... but what can ya do

If 2 pac does stay at least its a little bit of a consolation....... I dont fancy using it tbh.... and certainly wouldnt use it with out an air fed mask, what are these disposable masks like?

[Dangerous]

Cellulose and HS (high Solid) twp-pac solids are banned from jan 2007 to coply with the new voc laws.....However doing jobs at home will still be possible with water-based basecoat and a single pack MS (Medium solid...less hardener and thinner still complies with the new laws) laquers........(hope this helps......All the info I was given by my local motorfactors last weekend).....

[010on1986]

1) How long can celly paint and thinners be stored for? may buy a store of it..

2) will this change canned paint? aerosols? - hammerite? etc.

will there by anything left in the world not requiring a license or a permit!!!!!!!

[b2hbm]

1) How long can celly paint and thinners be stored for? may buy a store of it..

I've still got some left from a respray I did in the early 90s and I used it last year for some touch-up work. Colour match is fine. So providing the air is kept out, it's going to last quite a while - at least 10yrs IMO. The problem is that the tints settle out with time, so you've got to make sure it's very well stirred otherwise the colour isn't going to be uniform. I've just bought 5L topcoat and 10L thinners.... just in case the licensing thing doesn't include my cars.

2) will this change canned paint? aerosols? - hammerite? etc.

Good point - I can't see the industry taking a ban lightly, and my local Halfords don't seem to be de-stocking. I'm guessing that there's a get-out clause for selling very small volumes of paint for model makers, etc. Ironically aerosols probably have a greater volume of thinners than anything you'd spray with a spraygun.

will there by anything left in the world not requiring a license or a permit!!!!!!!

All suggestions to : EEC Licensing Division, UK Dept, Brussels. (but we think we've got most things covered)

[johnp]

'hammerite' paint's formula has changed (it's not made by Finnegans any more)and imo it's not as good--can't they leave anything alone ?

[shane1978]

Having attended an HSE workshop for paint sprayers (even though i'm not one just H&S bod) they will not be getting rid of two pack completly, a lot is going over to water based but for some paint applications it can't be done?

I have a bunch of literature at home on it all.

I'll have a good look through it and post the relevant bits for you.

Just so you know HSE will be doing a big clamp down on sprayers in general ensuring that their spray booths have had a clear out time done as recommended by the HSE done with the times above the spray booth.

(Test is smoke machine fills spray booth, Clear time is when no smoke is present. Put the time above your spray booth and no one enters into that room without appropriate PPE until the time elapses).

This is due to high occupational lung problems (Asthmagens) associated within the industry.

Will post more once looked through literature for you all!
Or see HSE webiste for more free courses in your area (For paint sprayers this means the HSE will not be knocking at your door for 2 years!)

[shane1978]

Thought i'd help by pointing you in the right direction of places to get up to date information.

First the Vehicle Builders and Repairers Association Limited (VBRA)

www.vbra.co.uk

and email on [email protected]

Secondly from a Health and Safety point of view with regard to safeguarding your health from nasty diseases etc

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/motoindx.htm

There you will find free downloads on all things based on Motor Vehicle workshops.

Hope this helps?

Shane

[010on1986]

looks like I'm buying 10 litres paint and thinner and primer, don't like body shop prices a stock would pay for itself many times over for those little repairs from time to time. time to make my two tone car one colour me thinks....

[shane1978]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/diary.htm

for all paint workshops owners and workers. Book yourself on one of these and you don't get inspected for a year or two!

On the upside makes you aware of occupational diseases and what to do about it.

You get a nice buffet too! All for free!

Hope this helps?!

[Chris]

Just tell them you are painting a commercial vehicle, the ban does not cover them. You can still paint them using solvents.