The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

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Mikejc
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

And so it was that after much effort I finally picked my car up from Westfeild Motors late last night. On the install front i'm less than happy with the quality of the work carried out and even less impressed with the final cost! But that's a story for another time :evil:

The results from this morning tuning session at Thor were a little dissapointing to say the least. I was always led to believe that a bigger turbo should in theory be able to produce more power at the same boost levels than the smaller one it replaced :? In my own case this wasn't to be true!

With the GT28 in place and running the same 1.2bar that was being run on the old turbo, I made virtually no gains! How the hell can that be I thought!? In the end they mapped the car at a slightly higher 1.3bar which they deemed safe due to the fact that the GT28 would be passing cooler air etc. In the old spec the car made 286.7bhp @ the wheels. With the addition of the GT28 and larger injectors it made a gain of 18.8bhp, leaving me with 305.5bhp @ the wheels. But even this can not be attributed to the new turbo when you think about it. ie the fact that i had increased the boost by .1 of a bar and that their is now a 3" downpipe in place of the original decated elbow could more than be hels accountable for the new found power!? :roll:

Once the tuning session was over Pete overlayed my mapping session over that of Neil Johnson graphs. As most of you will know Neil is also using the GT28 and the very same C/C as myself. It was amazing just how closely our maps followed each other! :shock: Pete at Thor seemed to think that the only real reason for both my own and Neils troubles were caused by the Pace/Roque Systems C/C being unable to flow the amount of air our GT28's are throwing at them! :(

So it would seem after all that Jonno's suspicions have been confirmed!? Anyone got an ST205 C/C they would like to sell ??? :cry: :wink: :lol:

Mikejc
Enrico
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:28 pm
Location: Sandbanks

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Enrico »

Hi Mike, good to see you again today. ( & thank's for keeping Mum :wink: )
Sorry I can't offer any tecnical help, (too thick), but I hope you're not too disappointed by today's results. Did the car feel any different on the drive home ?
With regard to your extra mods making up the extra power, I know people talk about 1psi being equal to 10bhp, but I am not convinced that that is true, & anyway, more is more & it is going the right way. What was the torque figure ?
I hope you are still going tomorrow mate.
^Trickster^
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:03 pm
Location: North East

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by ^Trickster^ »

1psi 10 10bhp is something i wouldnt be following, what other mods do you have to support the turbo? Just throwing on a turbo and even and ems will not yeild big power.

Graeme
Mikejc
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

Hi Graeme.

Take a look at my profile for the full spec.

Thanks for the heads up regarding their being more to tuning than strapping on a big turbo, however I had kind of figured that one out mate :wink:

Surely you can see that their should have been a great deal more of a gain though buddy!? Or are you suggesting that it's normal to have gained nothing from upgrading to a turbo such as the one I gained....regardless of spec?

Mikejc
^Trickster^
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Location: North East

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by ^Trickster^ »

Doesnt say what size injectors you have mate? are you runing cams?

300hp at the wheels is not a bad number you know, and id say you were running quite low boost really, i intend to run my td06 at 24psi once i install my 850cc injectors and ems in the next month or so. Donmt forget your turbo wont be in its efficency range till higher boost, td06 doesnt get efficient till after 17psi. Im thinking you might have standard injectors and cant run higher boost because of afr?

Graeme
paul_h
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Hartlepool

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by paul_h »

mike,

what turbo where you running before hand?

if i remember correctly it was a hybrid of some sort?

running such low boost on both turbos i wouldnt expect there to be that much of a difference between the 2. The gt28 isnt a big turbo and will run a lot higher boost than 1.3 bar where it will start to make a big difference in power figures over the hybrid.

maybe you where expecting too much at low boost? I know you must be disaponted but what was the reasons in running low boost is it a fuelling issue or intake temps etc.

if its intake temps then looks like the CC isnt upto it as neil thought originally I know its more money but looks like you might have to spend it on some decent cooling.

chin up i'm sure it will get sorted eventually.


paul
Mikejc
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

It was a standed CT20b actually Paul. I base my results in part on the fact that Neil was also running 1.2bar and too suffered exactly the same symtoms. He tried running as much as 1.9 bar several times but something proved to be causing a restriction! The GT28 from Fensport spent a year in development by themselves and has been proven to be within its efficiency range by 1bar and capable of holding onto 2bar of boost. According to Tony over at Fensport this very turbo has yeilded close to 400bhp running just 1.3bar!

As for the Pace c/c being un-efficient, this is not strictly true. It's amazingly good at keeping the temps down, it's only draw back seems to be the fact that it is unable to flow anymore than 1.2bar without causing a restriction!

Mikejc
Mikejc
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

If you have a peek at the bottom of the profile you'll spot an awaiting to be fitted section. The 800cc injectors are mentioned but i've not yet included them in my main profile :wink: So fueling is causing no issues. It simply is a matter of restriction!

See above for info on the Fensport GT28 :roll:

Mikejc :)
Mikejc
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

afr is 11.5 :wink:

Mikejc
madbadweasel

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by madbadweasel »

What are you going to do with the Pace CC, Mike?
Mikejc
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

Unsure as yet to be honest but it wont be staying what ever happens!

Mikejc
madbadweasel

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by madbadweasel »

Mikejc wrote:Unsure as yet to be honest but it wont be staying what ever happens!

Mikejc


If you decide to sell it. Depending on what you want for it, Cani ahve first Dibs?
Cheers,
Kyle
Mikejc
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

Possibly, but to be honest i'm still going to go the c/c route regardless. This in short would mean that I would only be selling the c/c itself, not the pre-rad, pump or water lines as I could re-use these when I decide which c/c core to go for! :wink:

Mikejc
nutter

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by nutter »

Hi Mike,

Why don't you keep the pace rad, lines and pump and just get the st205 cooler? this is what i will do if i experience the same problems as you
Mikejc
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:23 pm
Location: london

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Mikejc »

Hi Dean.

That is infact what I was planning on doing for the moment :lol: Now I just have to find one :wink:

Mikejc
nutter

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by nutter »

fensport have them in stock I think. Have you spoken to rogues? When i ordered my kit they said that there wasn't a problem with the kits. Surely they wouldn't tell porkies???
raptor95GTS
Posts: 6213
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:14 pm
Location: glasgow
Contact:

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by raptor95GTS »

um the thing is mike, 1.2 bar at the manifold is the same no matter what turbo you use. Don't matter on the size of the turbo because you are still ramming the air into the same volume therefore 1.2bar is going to be the same amount of air* no matter what sized turbo is used to produce it

* the bigger the turbo the more efficient it will be at producing 1.2 bar. your new turbo will produce that 1.2 bar at lower temps than the original CT20 so you will get more air mass within the 1.2 bar of pressure thus get a bigger cooler bang for your buck all year round

The biggy as already mentioned is that you can hit much higher boost pressures providing the rest of the engine can take it and hold it to the redline
Dangerous
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:40 pm
Location: Hinckley

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Dangerous »

High mike,
Sorry to here of your big disapointments.... :cry:

I think in definatly going to put my ATS TD06 purchase off until we can get this problem sorted, It really bothers me that after all of the hype surrounding chargecooling that a well respected company like PACE can get things so wrong....... I just can't understand why the cc core would be so restrictive :-k I know on a lot of the higher spec air-air intercoolers (pheonix power & turbohoses/spearco) use 3" diameter hardpipes and they claim to flow enough cfm to support 500bhp ! :shock: (www.turbohoses.com stage 9)

Do you know anyone with a spearco or similar intercooler that you could borrow to try and see if this helps.......?If it is the cc core it self surely just a tempory fit of an intercooler kit would eliminate this problem no ? :scratch: ](*,)
nutter

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by nutter »

I seriously hope it's not the cc itself.... I've got a ATS td06 and sold my greddy i/c to fund the pace cc!! I'll know soon enough though i spose when i start using the car in anger!
Dangerous
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:40 pm
Location: Hinckley

Re: The GT28 results...yipee...not! :(

Post by Dangerous »

Where did you get yours from? (ATS TD06)
How much did you pay if you don't mind me asking.... :roll: ?
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