Intercooler or Chargecooler?

[GIFF]

Hi folks, i'm looking for some cooling advice. Firstly i'll give a little intro.(i wont write war & peace). I bought MikeyG's Toms kitted rev3 T-bar tubby back in march and have since upgraded the suspension, and am now looking into cooling before any engine mods. This is now my 3rd mr2 to date, but my first tubby. Thought after i got rid of the last one that'd be it, but after owning a Mitsi GTO the last couple of years, i've came crawling back to Mr2'dom. Loving every minute of it too.

My goals are to get it to somewhere between 350-400 fwbhp and i'm wondering if getting a chargecooler would be overkill. Will a good intercooler be sufficient for reliable use at those kind of horsepower figures? Emphasis being on reliability. I basically dont want to have to fork out extra for something I might not really need. However, if a chargecooler is the way to go then so be it. Any views?

Cheers

GIFF

[matt_mr2t]

CC boys will swear by them. It's more complicated and "can" cause more expense for the ST205 CC set up.

There's no doubt they work, most of the big power cars on here have them but they also have supporting mods.
Be interesting to see I/C fitted cars with simular mods to test against really.

[GIFF]

Thanks for the reply Matt. I also forgot to mention i'll be looking to stick in some extra spal fans to aid cooling with whatever setup i go for. Im liking the look of the Rouge Systems Rev6 Chaergecooler. Is £800 - £1000 about an average price for a CC setup? I dont mind spending that amount if they have greater benefits over an intercooler.

[KrisB]

I currently have a greddy ic on the car and its holding car back now and im only making 320 at the hubs so looking at chargecooler or trunk mount now. I hate having to knock ignition timing out wehen its a hot day

[[SiG]]

KrisB - I doubt the Greddy is the limiting factor in your power, after all it's only about 290atw so plenty to go. Trickster had about 400bhp@fly with his (about 325atw) so plenty to go yet

Got Cams? Bigger turbo? One of these is probably the limiting factor (if you've not upgraded either)

Si

[KrisB]

running td05 turbo with a few other bits and bobs thor reckon if i could get intake temp down i could squeeze another 20 bhp out but intake temp gets to high causing high risk of det

[[SiG]]

Yeah sounds like a CC would give u a good boost - Other than that I'd fit a nice set of Cams and a SPAL fan to the Greddy if u havent already

[KrisB]

cams keep running through my head and yeah ic has a spal fan on it

[screech]

krisb if you're only making 320@hubs the greddy can cope with more than that i'd say you're being limited by your small turbo. if you want a sidemount try the phoenix power one, it's the best sidemount for an mr2 and is 20% deeper/thicker than the greddy plus is bar and plate which is more efficient in the 1st place.

[nutter]

Pushing this back to the original question Giff if you have the money go for a CC setup the lower intake temps will mean you will be able to push more ignition advance and more power ultimately.

I have the Rogue / Radtec chargecooler, and it is the mutts nuts. When Thor tuned my car the maximum intake temp they saw was 25 degrees and that was at 25psi of boost!

Yes it's more complicated than an intercooler and there are more parts to go wrong. But when you are trying to double the power of a car you need to expect things will go wrong

[tubby_tony]

But those inlet temps are not with std turbo nutter.

I would go CC and the new Rogue/Radtec CC is probably best MR2 specific unit on market until Dino gets his finger out.

[matt_mr2t]

The ST205 ones seem to be able to cope with what evers thrown at them and are cheaper than aftermarker mr2 specific kits?

[jonno]

sidemount intercoolers are rubbish on an MR2 because they dont get enough airflow.

OK, some people make upto 350bho out of them, but ONLY between September and March and thats dubious to be honest.

The only way forward is a CC on the MR2. They provide STABLE low inlet temps, which means you get more advance and a denser intake charge.

You simply wont make anywhere near 400bhp with a sidemount intercooler, I peaked at 330bhp with a sidemount. If intercoolers are you thing, then you will need a boot mount and some pipework. These seem to produce the goods, although the only few I know of and have seen the ECU logs for, seemed to be giving higher inlet temps than any of the CC setups. Although, the boot mount was better than the side mount.

Neil.

[Quigonjay]

I have the Rogue / Radtec chargecooler, and it is the mutts nuts. When Thor tuned my car the maximum intake temp they saw was 25 degrees and that was at 25psi of boost!

any idea how much power this radtec unit is supposed to be good for?

[[SiG]]

I have the Rogue / Radtec chargecooler, and it is the mutts nuts. When Thor tuned my car the maximum intake temp they saw was 25 degrees and that was at 25psi of boost!

any idea how much power this radtec unit is supposed to be good for?

And maximum flow by bar? I'm gonna need upto say 1.8bar as my ultimate target and am considering the Radtec system

[screech]

sidemount intercoolers are rubbish on an MR2 because they dont get enough airflow.

OK, some people make upto 350bho out of them, but ONLY between September and March and thats dubious to be honest.

The only way forward is a CC on the MR2. They provide STABLE low inlet temps, which means you get more advance and a denser intake charge.

You simply wont make anywhere near 400bhp with a sidemount intercooler, I peaked at 330bhp with a sidemount. If intercoolers are you thing, then you will need a boot mount and some pipework. These seem to produce the goods, although the only few I know of and have seen the ECU logs for, seemed to be giving higher inlet temps than any of the CC setups. Although, the boot mount was better than the side mount.

Neil.

yet didn't andyf (think it was him) make 408@hubs on a sidemount, nightspirit made 390@hubs on a sidemount, trickster made 350@hubs with a sidemount, plenty of americans make 400+ on sidemounts, you really do your research properly before posting don't you

just because you couldn't doesn't mean it's not easily possible, i was planning on running approx over 350@wheels on a sidemount, the only time there's ever really a difference is when sat in traffic. some turbos would require custom chargecooler set ups which would be ridiculously expensive.

[jonno]

sidemount intercoolers are rubbish on an MR2 because they dont get enough airflow.

OK, some people make upto 350bho out of them, but ONLY between September and March and thats dubious to be honest.

The only way forward is a CC on the MR2. They provide STABLE low inlet temps, which means you get more advance and a denser intake charge.

You simply wont make anywhere near 400bhp with a sidemount intercooler, I peaked at 330bhp with a sidemount. If intercoolers are you thing, then you will need a boot mount and some pipework. These seem to produce the goods, although the only few I know of and have seen the ECU logs for, seemed to be giving higher inlet temps than any of the CC setups. Although, the boot mount was better than the side mount.

Neil.

yet didn't andyf (think it was him) make 408@hubs on a sidemount, nightspirit made 390@hubs on a sidemount, trickster made 350@hubs with a sidemount, plenty of americans make 400+ on sidemounts, you really do your research properly before posting don't you

just because you couldn't doesn't mean it's not easily possible, i was planning on running approx over 350@wheels on a sidemount, the only time there's ever really a difference is when sat in traffic. some turbos would require custom chargecooler set ups which would be ridiculously expensive.

Using a 500+bhp turbo to make 350 is hardly a good idea is it? What happens is that people will buy a ~400bhp turbo, match that with a sidemount IC and then struggle with high inlet temps over 300bhp. How do I know? Because I have seen it first hand 10 or more times. Inlet temps are the single biggest problem to overcome with MR2 tuning. You either buy a extra large turbo, or get the intake cooling right.

Eventually everyone realises this - even numbskulls like you!. Once you have wasted your money on your sidemount IC and failed to get anywhere near the power figure you brought your turbo for, maybe you will wake up.

Sidemount IC's just dont deliver in an MR2 - end of story.

[matt_mr2t]

Sidemount + WI still cheaper than CC set p

[screech]

bit of an attitude today have we?

[matt_mr2t]

This arguments been going on since like forever lol.

Seen so many threads.

All you need to consider is how much you wanna spend and how much you wanna put into it. Intercooler = cheaper and easier.
CC = more expensive and more complicated but probably better.