Buyers/Sellers Feedback Section

[Ed]

I propose that IMOC set up a Buyers/Sellers Feedback section like the one below:

MR2OC Feedback Section

This should be put in place to allow feedback relating to any sale made through IMOC whether it is between members or members and an affiliate.

The Moderators should be there to help resolve any disputes that haven't been able to be resolved using PM. They should also prevent other users from jumping on the bandwagon or butting in when they have nothing to do with the dispute.

In the following link http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... 2&start=30 Anna (As an IMOC Moderator) has stated that :

2. Do not use IMOC as a tool to sort grievances. You may post an experience to warn others, as long as there is no reference to the other party involved. If an 'experience' thread descends into name calling etc, it will be locked and possibly moved.

Now if you are going to provide a For Sale forum and allow Affiliates to advertise on IMOC then IMOC bares some responsibility towards protecting it's members and the Moderators should therefore be there to help resolve disputes between Sellers and Buyers as is done on the US MR2OC site. At present we have no way of knowing whether another member can be trusted or whether an affiliate provides a good or bad service. To turn round and say that it is not IMOCs problem when you have allowed the advert in the For Sale section or taken money from an Affiliate to allow them to advertise is a dereliction of responsibility.

This is not meant as a 'Let's have a go at the Moderators thread'. This is a great site, let's just make it better and safer for it's members.

Ed

[Mark Edwards]

This is something that has already been looked at and will be implemented once we move over to our own server soon.

[tonigmr2]

Correct. I've seen a working version, when we've finished our server migration (half way through!!) we have something up and ready for this!!
T

[Ed]

Toni

Can you confirm that it will be of a similar format to that which is on the US MR2OC site and that the Moderators will not do as is quoted in Annas' quote of rule 2. as above.

The whole point of the Feedback section should be to praise those sellers and buyers that are honest and provide a feedback score for them to show this but also to name and shame those that are bad buyers or sellers without having the thread deleted or locked.

The moderators should be there to make sure that it stays on track, aid in the resolution of the dispute and make sure that members not involved in the transaction do not derail the dispute.

Cheers

Ed

[tonigmr2]

Esmond will be able to say exactly what it will do, but if items are sold here on IMOC it will allow members to feedback directly how that transaction went, yes. The whole idea of it is to avoid this sticky moderation problem we have with it, so in future if you sell on IMOC you are subject to feedback.

T

[poyntesm]

Ed,

It will be like ebay. A member will get a rating.

Once a item in the for sale section is sold they will get to close the sale and chose who they sold it to. This starts the feedback process. The seller & buyer both get the chance to leave feedback and to repsonse once to to feedback

so it works like this

1 - Sale completed
2 - Seller leaves feedback saying good buyer..payment was quick
3 - Buyer leaves neutral feeback saying item was good but toke ages to respone
4 - Seller gets to respond saying user chose cheapest shipping option

The code is all done and once we complete the move which is very close you will get to use it.

[Ed]

Hi Esmond,

That all sounds excellent and I am looking forward to seeing it in operation however what happens when there is a dispute. My point is that when a dispute is raised, what happens within that posting can relay a lot of information about the buyer or seller. For instance how quick they are to try and resolve the situation or whether they drag their feet and can't be bothered.

How involved will IMOC be in the resolution of these disputes because at the moment it looks like according to the rules you aren't bothered and if someone is named or shamed then the thread will be locked or deleted which does no one any good.

Cheers

Ed

[tonigmr2]

Hi Ed,

What people have to remember is that our hands are tied to some degree. We are not the 'selling/buying police' and we can have no bearing on how somebody decides to deal with an issue. Providing a clear feedback forum is our only tool here, we can't 'make' people sort it out. Either private or affiliates, all we are doing is providing a means of advertising, not a mediation service.

We have only locked or removed threads where it is clear the two parties have not tried to sort it first off the board, or where it devolves into personal insults. We are always of the opinon that people should try and sort out their own disputes, and that we cannot take sides. We do try and allow reported 'true' experiences which I think would cover what you are saying above, but we still have to moderate them if they become an argument.

Where there is a clear issue, i.e. x has paid and y has not delivered the item, we have and we will contact y and ask them to sort it or risk being banned from IMOC. But that really is the extent of our 'power' in this kind of situation. If you've further suggestions by all means let us know.
T

[Ed]

***Double Post***

[axisofunity]

Esmond, I am not sure that the system proposed will be very fair in all cases.

On the MR2OC site there is a name and shame section. It encourages healthy debate between those who say someone is good and those who don't. This should be encouraged. As MR2s get older and less reliable, decent companies to service and respect them will become harder. We will need to protect newer members and the rest from perhaps companies that consistently abuse etc.

Your feedback system wouldn't allow us to post "Kwik-Fit did this..." because the likely hood of KF having an account here is...

A specific forum would allow us to have a Kwif-Fit thread, a XXX thread etc. Indeed the best way of doing it would be to allow a specific forum and then a thread per trader.

In that trader thread, people can post positive and negative experiences. They can then 'rate' the thread. The rating would be displayed on the forum front-page so people can get an overall impression of the trader.

But overall currently -->

IMOC just seems to want to allow Affiliates to get great feedback but not have much of anything negative. The burden is placed totally on the user who has had the bad experience: "Don't post their name, Don't mention till resolved, Don't say anything that can't be proven, if you want to comment, comment in every thread asked about them instead of a general thread".
The IMOC attitude allows people like 3S to slate and slander other members confident in the fact they'll get the last word and then the topic will be locked.

Ho humm, an eBay style system is never going to defeat this, especially when if you look in the 'garage' section a number of traders appear to have installed everything from "single screw" to "seat" and have got a 10/10 rating for it.

Hmmmm

[poyntesm]

Providing a totally perfect solution is impossible.

The system is designed more for feedback from sellers -> buyers than for companies. That is what the feedback system is designed to handle. I am happy it will fit very nicely and provide a useful tool to the site.

I would hope long term the garage will be the correct place for reviewing companies. It still needs some work in this area but it is where the effort will go, not the feedback one.

There are also legal issues surrounding some of this, something not to be overlooked.

As for IMOC's attitude to affiliate we hold them to higher standards and step in as soon as we are aware of a situtation.

As I do not visit the OC I can not comment on their approach.

[tonigmr2]

I don't agree we allow affiliates to slate and slander unopposed. We have certainly removed posts by affiliates where they have broken the forum rules just like anybody else.

We have no special favouritisms to affiliates either. If they make a mistake it can be reported. We only take issue if the person doesn't make an effort to sort it out in private first, or where legal liability becomes fudged. We certainly would allow a thread of 'x company did this...' provided the above are satisfied.

I am not a fan of 'name and shame' forums as it just turns into a personal sl@gging off shop IMHO.

T

[Ed]

I am not a fan of 'name and shame' forums as it just turns into a personal sl@gging off shop IMHO.

T

Toni

I would say that is what the Moderators are there for in order to keep it on track.

I completely agree that every effort should be made to try to sort the problem out in private however if that fails we need to be able to post on the experience without ott moderation as long as the post is on track, factual and to a degree polite ( by this I mean no swearing or insulting ).

We do try and allow reported 'true' experiences which I think would cover what you are saying above, but we still have to moderate them if they become an argument.

For the most part I think this is true however what I am saying is that we need a seperate section for these sought of posts to be placed in and less of the OTT moderation I have seen at times where the post is locked.

By all means delete those posts from the thread that are from others jumping on the band wagon and nothing to do with the dispute, however let the dispute run to a settlement (If possible) between the 2 members. This approach can speak volumes about a seller or a buyer even more so than the eBay type feedback system because you get to see how they attempt to resolve the situation.

Ed

[tonigmr2]

These discussions should be taking place in private though. Do we really want to see the minutae of loads of transactions? The result is the important thing no?
T

[Ed]

In some ways Yes in other ways No. The best I can do to explain it is to give you a personal account.

Had it not been for the Feedback section on the US MR2OC then I would have quite happily sent $3500 off to Jeff (aka LB or extremeboost) I would have received nothing but heartache and hassle for probably a year or so and then not all of the bits.

On the other hand using there section and the feedback scoring I quite happily sent $1500 off to another member and received exactly what I had payed for.

That's where this sought of section and the properly moderated posts within it can be a bonus to IMOC and help protect it's members.

Ed

[tonigmr2]

But presumably if we had a feedback system you'd have been able to identify that anyway? Plus we'd have still allowed threads on how things had gone wrong after trying to sort it out.

T

[Ed]

But presumably if we had a feedback system you'd have been able to identify that anyway? Plus we'd have still allowed threads on how things had gone wrong after trying to sort it out.

T

If that is what we get then great. As long as we have a seperate section to post the dispute threads in and they are correctly and reasonably moderated.

Cheers

Ed

[axisofunity]

But presumably if we had a feedback system you'd have been able to identify that anyway? Plus we'd have still allowed threads on how things had gone wrong after trying to sort it out.

T

If that is what we get then great. As long as we have a seperate section to post the dispute threads in and they are correctly and reasonably moderated.

Cheers

Ed

The seperate section I think is key. That way even if they get locked, they're still there. You can't find threads about traders / business etc on here very well at the moment. So many random threads with their name in etc.