OK, here goes a topic to start some discussion.
I've decided to upgrade my challenge car to run in the improved class next year, all engines etc are legal as long as the internals are stock.
Should I go with a 20valve blacktop and the C52 with an LSD in it or just bite the bullet and fit a GZE lump and E153 box in it.
The class also brings a 40kg weight reduction to the minimum weight which will be hard to achieve so I'm stuck between the GZE's overall higher power and increased torque, vs the blacktops high rev limit, decent power and overall lighter weight.
Yeah the 20v on a gze is proving very popular for turboing, but alas it would not be legal as it would be classed as an internal mod, never being a production engine.
Goldy wrote:How about a 3SGTE engine? or is that also not allowed?
Not allowed.
I'd be very tempted to go the blacktop 20v route. Question is mod wise can you fit a big pulley to teh GZE?
If you can it will be a difficult choice as the SC would probably be faster out of the corners, that said a 20v could be very good as you'll obviously keep it above 6K all the time.
My choice would be 20v having had daft modded SCs.... but what will be quicker is hard to say.
Yes Steve's car is running a big pulley, although the intercooler cooling setup is 100% the reverse of what the Toyota engineers designed, hence it gets too hot retards and doesn't go anywhere as well as it should do.
You are allowed all 4AG family engines as long as they are production engines and have no internal mods. I'd love to stay NA for the high revs and sound of the thing, plus they are an easier thing to come by.
The GZE with a big pulley and decent IC will give more ultimate power and torque but will be heavier and i think a real challenge to get down to the 1000kg inc driver and fuel weight limit.
erm, i dont know...
Matt_J wrote:"I'd love to stay NA for the high revs and sound of the thing, plus they are an easier thing to come by."
Is that really true though? I was looking into doing a Blacktop swap a while back and found it impossible to find an engine for reasonable money.
Mike
They are rare engines. Easily available from fensport though... IIRC £1450.
Tis pity you can't put lairy cams in the 20v as i think the stock ones don't let it realise its full potential.
I still stand by my comment though Lauren, £1450 ISN'T a fair price for one of these engines I'm confused by your other comment though, why couldn't you put lairy cams in it? I'm sure I've seen a kit somewhere or other.
Mike
PsychomIKE wrote:I still stand by my comment though Lauren, £1450 ISN'T a fair price for one of these engines I'm confused by your other comment though, why couldn't you put lairy cams in it? I'm sure I've seen a kit somewhere or other.
Mike
you can't put lairy cams in because no internal mods are allowed in the series.
Trouble is where else are you going to get a 20v blacktop from? Think you may strike lucky but you'll have a long wait. Fensport will give a 3month guarrantee IIRC on their engines.
Toda among other manufacturers do cams for the 20v.
I happen to know someone with a blacktop, ecu, wiring etc sat in his garage with nothing to do, as I talked him into going GZE instead for his roadcar.
That aside, i also know a guy in malaysia who can get engines for sensible money and the UK source for the fensport ones which is a lot more reasonable.
The biggest trouble i see with going GZE is getting all the associated parts, engine lid, AW11 SC and pipework etc.
Are you allowed to dump the cat - remember that the 165-170bhp quoted for the 20V is with a cat exhaust so a decent non-cat exhaust should net a few extra bhp ( same is true of a GZE, though even with a decat and big pulley I think you'd struggle to get a consistent 180bhp without serious attention to the intercooling - do the rules limit what you can do to the 'cooler eg. can you fit a chargecooler ? )
MartG wrote:Are you allowed to dump the cat - remember that the 165-170bhp quoted for the 20V is with a cat exhaust so a decent non-cat exhaust should net a few extra bhp ( same is true of a GZE, though even with a decat and big pulley I think you'd struggle to get a consistent 180bhp without serious attention to the intercooling - do the rules limit what you can do to the 'cooler eg. can you fit a chargecooler ? )
exhausts are free, so that wouldn't be a problem. A later type GZE (ie like i had would be a good option) as 180bhp plus a little more is there for the taking... would estimate that intercooling mods would be allowed as Steve had these on his car.
Matt_J wrote:I happen to know someone with a blacktop, ecu, wiring etc sat in his garage with nothing to do, as I talked him into going GZE instead for his roadcar.
That aside, i also know a guy in malaysia who can get engines for sensible money and the UK source for the fensport ones which is a lot more reasonable.
The biggest trouble i see with going GZE is getting all the associated parts, engine lid, AW11 SC and pipework etc.
yep, good point about the malaysian supplier.... think this is the source for fensport engines anyway.
Matt_J wrote:That aside, i also know a guy in malaysia who can get engines for sensible money and the UK source for the fensport ones which is a lot more reasonable.
http://www.japaneseengines.co.uk/
These guys sell engines for sensible money
I got a DLI AE92 GZE for the AE86 with everything except the ECU for around 750.
Thats a fair bit cheaper than the 1350 +vat that fensport charge, there's may well have an uncut loom though which is a real pain in the ar$e to work out.
I'm confused by your other comment though, why couldn't you put lairy cams in it? I'm sure I've seen a kit somewhere or other.