What makes a good flowing core?

[androo007]

So the next thing I'd like to test / improve is the chargecooler core that I currently have. From testing done on Simon Hicks car Peters testing indicated that the ratec is "in the upper end of its abilities on low to mid 400's".

This matches other people's experiences and whilst people do seem to get higher numbers from it and my IATs are fine, I'd like to give some more headroom for 500hp in the future.

Therefore I've been looking at cores.... but what I cannot fathom I'd what actually constitutes a cores maximum flow ability before you start to see pressure drop from the other side?

Case study:

Radtec:

core size 12" x 6" x 6".
Inlet / outlet: 2.5"
Maximum cfm ??? / 450hp

Precision pt1001

Core size: 12 x 4.5 x 4.5
Inlet / outlet: 3"
Cfm ???? / 1000hp

Frozen boost:

Core size: 10 x 4.5 x 4.5
Inlet / outlet: 3"
Cfm 700cfm / 600hp

Design wise theres one major difference between the radtec & precision / FB - where the air enters and exits.

Radtec air must flow top to bottom via a 6x6 grid for a length of 12" whereas the precision (which has exactly the same core size!!!) Flows via a 12x6 grid for 6" only.

Does this greater surface area lead to a lower resistance / increased cooling?

I'm just so surprised that there is such a massive difference when really the difference being top to bottom rather than side to side.

[androo007]

Yoooou hooo anyone any ideas? Ash was particularly thinkin of you as a pt1001 owner

[Gullzter]

Not a factual answer but maybe the inlet + outlet sizes make a big difference, looking at similar sized cores on avt pwr websites, the bigger inlet+outlets have huge increases in maximum power.. Just a thought

[androo007]

Thanks pal. Seems to be the case aye

[C35Rob]

many factors affect the efficiency of a heat exchanger.. rating a intercooler/chargecooler core in the amount of BHP it can "flow" is at best a very rough rule of thumb and realistically total BS. "1000BHP core!" - 1000 bhp on what? a huge lazy engine that runs low boost and has very little cooling to do?, or 1000 BHP on a small engine running massive boost and huge compressor outlet temps?

things that affect heat exchanger efficiency are type of core - bar and plate, tube and fin, plate type etc, core size, material, cooling surface area, thickness of the tubes/fins, whether the tubes have internal 'turbulators' (additional surface area and disrupt the airflow to increase cooling), end tank design, water flow path etc - that's before you take into account the system water capacity, pre rad and pump too

the radtec core is compromised to fit in the stock location, the end tank design isn't great and while I've not seen inside one looking at the size of it the actual cooling surface area can't be very big at all, i'm guessing it's a plate type heat exchanger by the looks of it

the precision core design is really good, the end tanks are big and direct the air nicely through the tubes, the air flows through lots of short tubes (much better than fewer long ones - like this for example)



water flow through the core is important too.. for example something like this





isn't great, as while there are turbulators inside the tubes (good) the water inlet/outlet is on the same side, so there's nothing forcing the cool water over the whole core, it's entirely possible that the front of the core (opposite the in/out) is getting all of the cooling effect and the back end of the tubes isn't

whereas something like this



is a lot better, lined up in countercurrent flow the cool water would enter on the cooler (outlet) side of the core, flow around and then out of the hot (inlet) side of the core

[androo007]

Rob, thanks so much as ever.

Speaking to rogue today they seem confident that the core is good for much bigger power than 400, however I think it's the DESIGN of the latter frozen boost style that allows for another 150-200hp on the same core size that radtec starts to lose efficency at mid 400''s.

Not to say it isn't capable of cooling more, but not at top efficency.

That said, the radtec at the moment cools perfectly......but I want more power

Frozen boost seem to have a really good reputation and seem very focused on core design, find distribution etc so seem to know their stuff rather than generic wallop chucked out of China.

And because I'm useless at not wanting to change things....I'm tempted to get this new one and even place it in the boot.

http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic ... p-203.html

[Ryan S]

I'd put money on Frozen boost buyng those coolers from China! I'd also put money on the cheap chinese ones being every bit as good as the FB ones.

[C35Rob]

I'd put money on Frozen boost buyng those coolers from China! I'd also put money on the cheap chinese ones being every bit as good as the FB ones.

Frozenboost stuff is 100% chinesium, can be found on eBay, amazon and any of the Chinese equivalents.. not to say they won't be perfectly adequate, just pointless paying shipping and duty from the states

[androo007]

No way!!!!!! Wow. They seem to at least market them as being made better, or so you'd think.

My only worry is that the cheap Chinese ones may suffer from weld failure or fractures at high boost leading to cc water pouring into the intake.... but you think they are the same?

[Ryan S]

They are great quality, I've seen an xs power one and it's as good quality in everyway as my frozen boost one. As i said i'd put money on them being chinese. FYI the quality of both mine and the xspower one i seen are fantastic!

The reason nobody mentions it is down to gear snobbery really. Nothing else

I'll give you an example, a well known microphone company were caught rebranding cheap chinese mics that cost $100 and selling them on for $1400.
So yeah it most certainly happens

Absolutely nothing sub standard about what the chinese can make 👍🏾

[C35Rob]

China is the world's factory.. they'll make anything to any quality you want to pay for.. from the very cheapest worst tat to extremely high quality stuff.

If you want and can afford/justify the money for something like a precision, or one of the handful of custom fabrication places in the UK that will make you one (pro-alloy, GRS, PACE products etc) then definitely go for it.. peace of mind, comebacks if anything goes wrong etc

If not then these generic "universal" ones will do the job, make sure its pressure tested before you fit it, and maybe look to getting a level sensor at the system high point rigged to a warning light so if you do lose fluid you know straight away.

That said, I've never heard of one failing personally

[androo007]

Thanks guys. Much cheaper too eh.

So there seems to be 2 types to choose from: 700hp (3" inlet/outlet) and 100hp - I actually prefer the 700 as water inlet outlet is top to bottom.

So golden question of the day....which who knows. .... will it out flow a radtec core?

[jimGTS]

I went with the frozenboost cc a number of years ago. Don't think any had tried the big sucka '1000hp' core on the Mr2 over here until that point. Don't believe anyone with the FB prerad either.

I was pretty happy with it.

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... 04378fc6d9

But as said. At the time I got a few bits from frozenboost when £ too $ weren't too bad really. Not great, but could have been worse and saved maybe 10% over getting it from the U.K. eBay stores.

But it is eBay stuff. You only need to look on eBay to see it's the same.
Same deal with the japspeed exhaust and ICs. Cheap items bought in bulk and sold on, and some 'stamped' to warrant big mark ups.
That's not to say they aren't ok quality and do the job.

People have said they are boxed up intercoolers, so aren't ideal, but go big and it's not an issue.

[androo007]

wow bloody hell Jim that's a whopper!

Interesting to see in that link that Chris even seemed to think a bigger CC core than that couldnt keep up with a GT35 turbo.......

would it fit down the other side do you think?

[Ryan S]

wow bloody hell Jim that's a whopper!

Interesting to see in that link that Chris even seemed to think a bigger CC core than that couldnt keep up with a GT35 turbo.......

would it fit down the other side do you think?

Both side are the same size except where the engine sits. You have the added benefit of not having the air filter on the driver side.