Which charge cooler is best that fits in the engine..?

[2mad]

Yep- the ST205 set up sucks a$$...a proper sized core will see minimal pressure drop, and a realistically sized front mount radiator with proper pump and cc beats w/m everyday of the week

Hope so bud would love to see some data, intake air temps including vs ambient air temp .. hope your right and would love to be proved wrong

[jimGTS]

Even in the heat we've been having I haven't seen much above 40c on boost.
About 15c above ambiant with w/m injection. That is with a lot of cruise and B road. Generally very recently seeing 38-39 cruise and on boost 40-41c! This drops further to low 30s after the boost session then comes back up to cruising temps.

March track day at silverstone when it was around 5-10c ambiant I never saw above 25c intake temps. And that was a track day.

A track day in this heat id expect no more than 35-40c from the numbers I've been seeing. Ie longer time the w/m is on, colder the temps get.

This is measuring inside the inlet manifold. Not in an IC pipe for reference.

Ash I know you don't believe the only think w/m is good for is cooler temps. It has the advantage of upping octane, suppressing knock amongst other things.

[C35Rob]

Even in the heat we've been having I haven't seen much above 40c on boost.
About 15c above ambiant with w/m injection. That is with a lot of cruise and B road. Generally very recently seeing 38-39 cruise and on boost 40-41c! This drops further to low 30s after the boost session then comes back up to cruising temps.

March track day at silverstone when it was around 5-10c ambiant I never saw above 25c intake temps. And that was a track day.

A track day in this heat id expect no more than 35-40c from the numbers I've been seeing. Ie longer time the w/m is on, colder the temps get.

This is measuring inside the inlet manifold. Not in an IC pipe for reference.

Ash I know you don't believe the only think w/m is good for is cooler temps. It has the advantage of upping octane, suppressing knock amongst other things.

I've been seeing very similar temps on my commander (using the triumph air intake sensor) in the last few days.. ~30 degrees when cruising, up to low 40's when pushing on a bit..

I'm actually looking forward to getting Ashley's old WI kit fitted to my car, mainly as a knock suppression aid as I'm pushing my luck on stock internals.

[jimGTS]

Past weekend was the highest cruising temps I've seen on this setup.
Still pretty happy with only a few degree rise on boost. (Single pull).

You'd expect more bashing through the gears.

Oddly I maybe only saw a 5c increase on a hot day at the pod. Crossed the line, foot off and my temps went below 20s. (Started on the line with 35c).

I didn't think a st205cc was bad, I've considered fitting one for ages to go alongside my w/m kit.

Wouldn't mind going custom instead again though.

My cars holding together fine even with a sidemount and seen the odd 1.3bar.

Netted me the fastest 20b 1/4 time too in the UK afaik without the use of nitrous
Trapping 114mph ain't half bad.

[2mad]

Top man jim your living it .. im a big fan of w/m .. but i do find it difficult getting support .. like i said liquid nitrogen cooler im in .. w/m till then

[ashley]

The main issue with any of your readings on w/m injection is knowing what the charge temperature actually is, and how much of the apparent reduction in temperatures is actually a result of spraying w/m onto the sensor itself.

And yes- I do get the benefits of water injection in cooling the combustion temperatures in the cylinders themselves...the problem is unless you get it spot on all you end up doing is robbing power. And yes- injecting methanol will help suppress det, but that's the same as injecting more gasoline isn't it? Only you're not accurately measuring how much you throw into the mix, or how much is proportionally going into each cylinder.

I'd love to run 4 additional injectors at the top of the inlet manifold runners and properly inject methanol in tandem with gasoline...and a further 4 port injectors to properly spray water...now that would be worth doing! But blindly injecting w/m in front of the TB is just to heavy handed/ uncalibrated for my liking...that and the fact I just don't trust IAT readings in that situation, and I need to know what charge temperatures I am actually getting going into the cylinders else I can't sleep at night.

[ashley]

And yes- to an extent I am playing devil's advocate...I do understand how effective w/m injection is at a coarse level, especially without spending lots of cash

[2mad]

And yes- to an extent I am playing devil's advocate...I do understand how effective w/m injection is at a coarse level, especially without spending lots of cash

If you remember it was me that said the temp could be from the w/m cooling the sensor .. and we hit a impasse no one could prove for or against ... all i can go by is the results from my own car ... and w/m on my car flew

[ashley]

Yep and you made a really really good point

[jimGTS]

I can understand about the spray on the sensor.

But in my case my injector is directly off the core. Well an inch into the IC pipe. A good foot and half from tb, and my sensor actually sits at a port on runner 4.

So basically these 2 are about as fair apart as you can get.

I run a premixed solution, so pretty consistent mix I'd hope.

Is it the most sophisticated w/m solution, no, ha! It's super basic.

But now I've done a wire tuck I'd hate to fill the space with a big cc

[QUOC2008]

Thanks guys for the info... so 30-40 degrees is normal temps for air temps... usually mine is around that on hot days but that day I think I realised I didn't switch the cc fan on that opens up the 2nd water pump aswell on the cc and that's why temps were going sky high... I watch the video again I think I switch it on half way through the session.

[QUOC2008]

Do you guys think it's worth me getting a remap to boost up the power... at the moment I'm only running 1.4 bars @445.3bhp on a hks gt 3037 I've heard this turbo can run 1.8 bars seems alot of improve on pOwer can done

[2mad]

30 - 40c I would be happy with that on a mr2 buddy ... gooooood power too

[QUOC2008]

30 - 40c I would be happy with that on a mr2 buddy ... gooooood power too

Your right 2mad... I should be happy how it is... or I will never stop

[Martin F]

Do you guys think it's worth me getting a remap to boost up the power... at the moment I'm only running 1.4 bars @445.3bhp on a hks gt 3037 I've heard this turbo can run 1.8 bars seems alot of improve on pOwer can done

I would as long as your cooling is up to scratch, I went a bit OTT with my chargecooler core however it creates little lag differences compared to before if any however allows me to run higher boost with no adverse effects so far.

I only give the car the odd blast in 2nd, 3rd or 4th but can't really hold any sort of power down without risking losing my licence...

At 1.95 bar I am still seeing temps 9 degrees max above ambient, pretty sure it is giving me more power than the turbo is capable off, I would never consider running around a track at that boost though....

your car should easily get over 500bhp with some more boost I would think



at the end of the day, it's your car and up to you if you want to accept the risks, looking forward to the outcome

[gnzyza]

Totally agree with Ash but still going to fit one can't afford a CC and WI beats the biggest side mount you can get.

Small amounts of water only and not mapped for it, just to cool the charge.

I'm sure at 1.1b a side mount and lots of cable will enduce a fair amount of knock.

We should do a experiment !

[ashley]

Thought you guys might like this:

http://gtspeed.us/2016/08/31/bosch-to-o ... utomakers/

http://www.hybridcars.com/bosch-water-i ... emissions/

[jimGTS]

Reads like w/i 24/7??

Interesting to see a manufactorer go down this route.

Can see m4 folk adding meth to the system and tuning and making some silly gains!

[gnzyza]

The one in the BM switches maps based on tank full or not. But interesting to see the other concept of waterboost is that a special injector, all in one? Must be a small shot it lasts 1800 miles between refills.

[Gullzter]

It doesn't say how the car still runs fine without w/i, would assume this means they map it without the w/i?

If that's the case it's a little different to how most people chasing power are using it where they map it in with w/i