Gen 4 3SGTE details ?

[vtecpower]

hey people

how did I not know about this engine when I owned a tubby ? how comes its not a swap carried out a lot in the uk ?

and why was it put in a family wagon lol

how does it compare to a gen 2 3sgte or a rev5 mr2 tubby tuning wise



any info appreciated

[Peter Gidden]

Only fitted to the Caldina IIRC. Manifold and turbine housing cast as one assembly.

Tuning wise, stick a boost controller on it same as other revisions.

[Race Idiot]

I keep reading the american oc and there seem to be a few people there with them.

They have COP instead of a dizzy as standard, slightly different internals and the intake mani is a sidefeed. Also apparently the rev3 exhaust mani can be used instead of the integrated turbo manifold.

I was thinking about one if my engine went but i'd have to replace my 205cc with something else, as I doubt it would fit with the different intake mani.

[Peter Gidden]

Also apparently the rev3 exhaust mani can be used instead of the integrated turbo manifold.

If you change the turbo too.

[Race Idiot]

If you change the turbo too.

Image Replaced With URL For Quote http://www.sbits.net/pics/gen4_turbo.jpg

Yeah I did say it was integrated, so I guess you could use the rev3 mani with the CT20.

Searching there doesnt seem to be that much info, I mean i'm assuming it bolts up to an E153 and uses the same engine mounts but what about the ancillaries?
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=459913
http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=459443

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has this motor in the uk

Edit: also most caldinas are usualy autos, so i'm assuming theres some messing around with the ecu to fool it into working with a manual gearbox.

[Peter Gidden]

The 3S-GTE Caldinas used a 5 speed manual gearbox.

[vtecpower]

It would be interesting to hear from someone in the uk that owns one

Apparently spool time is faster !

And being newer technology surely the individual coils must be better than dizzy cap rotor arm

I think I read that the internals are slight different I wonder if that's for better or worse, (can the stock motor handle more than the stock rev5 tubby)?

[Ryan S]

And being newer technology surely the individual coils must be better than dizzy cap rotor arm

there's a few guys done the coil swap, not from a Caldina, i think the coild were from a bike?? but yeah, it has to be better than having a distriburator


there's a group buy somewhere on here for some of the parts required for the conversion.(although it was so long ago i think it ended up not going ahead).

EDIT: http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=166890

actually updated a couple of months back, so it may still go ahead??

[madmr2man]

There's a guy on mr2oc who has completed this conversion recently.

Unsure of thd details but reports are good from memory.

[greeny]

If anyone knows of one for sale in looking for one

[jimGTS]

It would be interesting to hear from someone in the uk that owns one

Apparently spool time is faster !

And being newer technology surely the individual coils must be better than dizzy cap rotor arm

I think I read that the internals are slight different I wonder if that's for better or worse, (can the stock motor handle more than the stock rev5 tubby)?

it spools quicker as it has a slightly smaller turbo
sure, coils newer tech, also at £100+ a pop to replace, are more expensive than a set of leads by a long way when its time to replace.
Unless you are talking about silly power levels, oem ignition setup is fine

i see the appeal with the sidefeed inlet manifold, which i hear is good.

all in all, i only see the appeal of one if looking at silly 600+hp power levels. as youll be taking advantage of ignition, sidefeed and thick block, other than that, seems more hassle than its worth on a BPU mr2.
sure the oem turbo on there spools very fast, but it also wont make the power a ct20b will.

swings and roundabouts.

the guy on the OC has hooked up an awesome engine monitoring program to it though, as its OBDII i think its called!

[vtecpower]

It would be interesting to hear from someone in the uk that owns one

Apparently spool time is faster !

And being newer technology surely the individual coils must be better than dizzy cap rotor arm

I think I read that the internals are slight different I wonder if that's for better or worse, (can the stock motor handle more than the stock rev5 tubby)?

it spools quicker as it has a slightly smaller turbo
sure, coils newer tech, also at £100+ a pop to replace, are more expensive than a set of leads by a long way when its time to replace.
Unless you are talking about silly power levels, oem ignition setup is fine

i see the appeal with the sidefeed inlet manifold, which i hear is good.

all in all, i only see the appeal of one if looking at silly 600+hp power levels. as youll be taking advantage of ignition, sidefeed and thick block, other than that, seems more hassle than its worth on a BPU mr2.
sure the oem turbo on there spools very fast, but it also wont make the power a ct20b will.

swings and roundabouts.

the guy on the OC has hooked up an awesome engine monitoring program to it though, as its OBDII i think its called!

the information i was looking for!!

thanks jim

had no idea that turbo doesnt make as much power as a ct20b

[Ryan S]

the CA18DET from the 200sx has individual coils, as did a few jap cars of that era, i always remember being surprised that the mr2 had a distriburator. the coils on that were also £100 each to replace, however, i;ve yet to hear of many failing.

[Race Idiot]

Yeah I wouldve thought that the coils would have a longer service life than a set of ignition leads. VW 1.8t coils aside

Honestly i'm just toying with the idea because my car has quite a high mileage motor although its had a top end rebuild. So if it fails its either a forged build, find another rev3 motor (might be harder to find a nice one nowadays) or go gen4.

[Odin_S]

I've also read a lot of threads on MR2OC .com about the gen 4. Some report the Rev 3 rods are stronger. I'm thinking by the time you want big power you'd be heading down the same road as you would if you had a rev 3. Is the ecu mappable?

Also Jim said that the ignition is more advanced, does this mean it can run more advanced timing ie more power?

[synXero]

The coils for the gen4 3SGE - the beams - cost an absolute fortune.

Still, the J-OBD plug is cool. I would warn that 3SGE g4 isn't OBDII, it's a Japanese protocol that is somewhere between I and II

[RyanRs]

The Rev 4 3s-gte has a HV oil pump, i believe to be the same as the 5sfe 2.2 pump however its designed like a gen3. This means that if you use a 5s block / 3s head combo, you can use the sump and pump off the gen4 3sgte to give you the same 2-piece sump and lower oil filter as is on the gen 3 3sgte but with the HV pump. You can use gen3 engine oil pump and sump but the pump is not as good as the gen 4 and 5s.

[sinjen]

The gen 4 on mr2oc.co.uk is mine I couldn't say good enough things about it, it is an awesome engine. Spool is very fast, more power, more mpg, smoother etc etc. coils cost £70 each from mr T or £40 from amayama so not exactly expensive. It's obd2, so you can run the Torque pro app to monitor all the sensors on the engine. The ct20 is a straight swap, with mani, but the ct15 does not run out of puff from what I can tell, although being a smaller turbo you will get some nice gains with the ct20 at the expense of spool.

[sinjen]

Rods are the same as the beams, so lighter and less bulky at first glance than the gen 3, this aids engine response. Usual unsubstantiated gossip about them being weaker but nobody knows what they're actually made of, forged or otherwise, so whether they are weaker or not, nobody actually knows. Besides over the seas there a few on standard internals running circa 400bhp.

It bolts straight up to the S54 and E153.

Makes more power than the gen 3 (even with a smaller turbo), around the 260-270 mark.

Fuel cut is 19psi, actuator is 8psi and standard boost is 11.7psi.

Afaik the ecu still isn't mappable, but it is obd2

Getting hold of a manual ecu is difficult as they mostly came with the auto 4wd box, but the auto ecu runs perfectly once you have put the NSW to ground.

[Ryan S]

Rods are the same as the beams, so lighter and less bulky at first glance than the gen 3, this aids engine response. Usual unsubstantiated gossip about them being weaker but nobody knows what they're actually made of, forged or otherwise, so whether they are weaker or not, nobody actually knows. Besides over the seas there a few on standard internals running circa 400bhp.

It bolts straight up to the S54 and E153.

Makes more power than the gen 3 (even with a smaller turbo), around the 260-270 mark.

Fuel cut is 19psi, actuator is 8psi and standard boost is 11.7psi.

Afaik the ecu still isn't mappable, but it is obd2

Getting hold of a manual ecu is difficult as they mostly came with the auto 4wd box, but the auto ecu runs perfectly once you have put the NSW to ground.

how much boost does it run standard??
gahhhhhhhhh, never mind, really busy at work, never got a chance to read the whole paragraph properly