[Mk2] [Turbo] What can you do with the stock ECU?

[rs007]

So my head is getting kinda fried.

My 2' is pretty much standard apart from an HKS mushroom filtery thing (don't like the look of it design wise, can't see it filtering particularly well?) and what seems to be an aftermarket IC of some kind, poss HKS as discussed in my "Is my intercooler custom?" thread.

I just don't know where to go mod wise from here, been reading so much stuff I've just flummoxed myself I think. Just as I had a pretty fine idea what to do, I started reading that the stock ECU needs replaced pretty much straight off??

My plan was only to get the exhaust sorted out (still factory), get a decat pipe (I have a feeling mine might have been gutted already, will check when doing exhaust), modest boost increase (14psi) and for reliability, although prob not needed but because I could make a project of it myself, maybe playing with WI - I need little things like that lol

Would the stock ECU do all that OK?

If I have to go custom ECU I just have no idea where to start; I am not sure I can justify the budget for it either, in terms of the unit itself, or the setup time it might - will - require.

So, how far can the stock ECU go? Who has good road power on a standard unit? What are your specs?

Help me de-confuse myself - I'm not interested in monster power, just a good increase, and with as much reliability as is easy and cheap to get lol

On a side note, I just don't feel that impressed with the grunt of my 2' any more... well have never been blown away really - maybe I am expecting too much... I mean with the custom IC and filter surely it should be making a tiny bit more than stock... boost seems slow to come up - but admittedly I have nothing to compare too.

I also still need to check that various systems are working right, TVIS, TVSV etc, but the engine does otherwise seem in great condition. Might be worth a code read to see if that throws anything up...

But yeah, stock ECU, what have you guys got from it and how?

[rs007]

Oh, its a Rev2 as well, meant to say

[killerferret666]

My rev2 has a field ECU...have no idea what it does, what it can do and how much it was

Glad I could help.

On serious note i think its a slave board put on to the standard ECU

[Peter Gidden]

You can decat, change exhaust, raise boost all before you need an ECU.

[rs007]

You can decat, change exhaust, raise boost all before you need an ECU.

THANK YOU!!!

lol!!

In your experience - I've read enough of your posts to trust your info (no bum lick intended ) - what sort of power could I expect from decent exhaust and around 14psi boost, with the uprated intercooler and intake? I'm going to fabricate a better intake - Ive seen one that totally isolates intake air from bay... like that.

[rs007]

My rev2 has a field ECU...have no idea what it does, what it can do and how much it was

Glad I could help.

On serious note i think its a slave board put on to the standard ECU

Interested to know what this would do?

A suppose a good side effect of aftermarket ECU (possibly slave board type too?) would be proper removal of speed limiter - for when I am on the track, obviously

[bolton]

I have a mines ecu for sale, and can do a deal if you swap ur standard rev2 ecu!!!

[rs007]

I have a mines ecu for sale, and can do a deal if you swap ur standard rev2 ecu!!!

Mate, I wouldn't know where to start with it! And as said above I don't really need it...

Although

I do like future proofing and it would get rid of stupid speed limiter, yes

[Peter Gidden]

Mate, I wouldn't know where to start with it! And as said above I don't really need it...

Although

I do like future proofing and it would get rid of stupid speed limiter, yes

There's nothing to know about any of the Mines, Blitz etc ECUs. They can't be re-programmed.

They normally have rev limit incresed, more agressive ignition advance, and maybe speed delimited.

[rs007]

Mate, I wouldn't know where to start with it! And as said above I don't really need it...

Although

I do like future proofing and it would get rid of stupid speed limiter, yes

There's nothing to know about any of the Mines, Blitz etc ECUs. They can't be re-programmed.

They normally have rev limit incresed, more agressive ignition advance, and maybe speed delimited.

So possibly worth it for my purposes if cheap enough? Fast road - not interested in pursuing crazy power - it sounds essentially like a "chip"?

[Mike]

Fellow Rev 2 owner here

Unfortunately the earlier Revs are somewhat hamstrung by their pretty ancient engine management.

As Peter said, you can certainly reap rewards with the tweaks you mentioned, before going down the ECU route.

First, if your MR2 is feeling a little lacklustre, I'd make sure its all nice and healthy, particularly the ignition componants.

There are a number of mods which should release a few more horses;

Turbo upgrade - the CT26 runs out of puff north of 5000rpm, swapping it for a C20b or a good quality hybrid will make the upper reaches of the rev range swell with torque I've got a Stage 2 hybrid from Fensport, spools strongly from 2500ish and seems to get an extra kick at 4500. Very good upgrade.

Downpipe - Even if your Cat is gutted, the standard downpipe as a horrible elbow where it leaves the turbo. A good downpipe will help to get those exhaust gasses moving more freely. (I've just bought one myself).

Electronic Boost Controller - As long as you've bypassed fuel cut (circa 13/14psi I cant remember) you should be able to increase boost to the 15/16psi mark. However, at these levels you will definitely want a stronger headgasket, and your 440cc injectors will be operating at maximum duty.

Don't be tempted by aftermarket dump valves, ignition leads and such like. Keep these stock. But before you up the boost make sure you've ditched that Rev 2 head gasket.

[rs007]

Fellow Rev 2 owner here

Unfortunately the earlier Revs are somewhat hamstrung by their pretty ancient engine management.

As Peter said, you can certainly reap rewards with the tweaks you mentioned, before going down the ECU route.

First, if your MR2 is feeling a little lacklustre, I'd make sure its all nice and healthy, particularly the ignition componants.

There are a number of mods which should release a few more horses;

Turbo upgrade - the CT26 runs out of puff north of 5000rpm, swapping it for a C20b or a good quality hybrid will make the upper reaches of the rev range swell with torque I've got a Stage 2 hybrid from Fensport, spools strongly from 2500ish and seems to get an extra kick at 4500. Very good upgrade.

Downpipe - Even if your Cat is gutted, the standard downpipe as a horrible elbow where it leaves the turbo. A good downpipe will help to get those exhaust gasses moving more freely. (I've just bought one myself).

Electronic Boost Controller - As long as you've bypassed fuel cut (circa 13/14psi I cant remember) you should be able to increase boost to the 15/16psi mark. However, at these levels you will definitely want a stronger headgasket, and your 440cc injectors will be operating at maximum duty.

Don't be tempted by aftermarket dump valves, ignition leads and such like. Keep these stock. But before you up the boost make sure you've ditched that Rev 2 head gasket.

Thanks for that!

Ignition components all been changed or in process of Ditto everything else - I might be talking too soon and I am aware fo that, because there are a few things I need to check over still, such as the T-VSV, T-VIS - just make sure they are doing what they are meant to etc... so I am still very much in the process of getting everything that is already there working nicely.

Car came with a Blitz atmospheric dump valve... I'm in two minds about it... its dumping air that fuel has already been metred for so is def upsetting engine running at throttle closing... but - and I am not a single bit ashamed to admit this....... I think I might be hooked on the noise

Turbo - Ive thought about this, just don't know if it is outwith the budget... its def a late spooler...

[Turbonoz]

Unfortunately the earlier Revs are somewhat hamstrung by their pretty ancient engine management.

Turbo upgrade - the CT26 runs out of puff north of 5000rpm, swapping it for a C20b or a good quality hybrid will make the upper reaches of the rev range swell with torque I've got a Stage 2 hybrid from Fensport, spools strongly from 2500ish and seems to get an extra kick at 4500. Very good upgrade.

Electronic Boost Controller - As long as you've bypassed fuel cut (circa 13/14psi I cant remember) you should be able to increase boost to the 15/16psi mark. However, at these levels you will definitely want a stronger headgasket, and your 440cc injectors will be operating at maximum duty.

Don't be tempted by aftermarket dump valves, ignition leads and such like. Keep these stock. But before you up the boost make sure you've ditched that Rev 2 head gasket.

The Rev 2 ECU is very good at what it does, definitely not ancient. Hard to crack, but it's been done for years (Techtom). Unfortunately, unlike the Nissan, Honda, Volvo & Bosch Motronic systems et al, the players have kept their cards extremely tight to their chest. There has been development in a mappable ECU, but no idea how that is progressing.

I've ran a stock CT26 at 1.5 bar, and it held a solid 1.35 bar at 7k RPM. Definitely does not run out of puff in my experience. Boot mount intercooler set up.

The stock 440s are not at max duty at 15/16 psi on any turbo shy of a HX35 IMO. I ran the aforementioned 1.5 bar (22 psi) and AFR was a stable 11.5:1 with the stock ECU just to test things before fitting the standalone. Jeff Hartman (some mapping guy) ran 330whp (~420@fly, USA figures...) on stock 440s with race gas, 300whp without.

TFS is running circa 350bhp on a stock paper gasket. But he knows what he's doing and the car is fully set up & mapped for this.

The engines are stronger than people are led to believe in my opinion. The cars are ready for some major power but are limited by the fuel pump, fuel rail and an ECU that has proven difficult to tame!

[karlz0r]

Running that kind of boost on the ct26 isnt the best idea as past 15 its just slamming hot air in, im sure the torque when it first spooled up was pretty epic.

The stock fuel cut on the rev2 is 12psi and with a defender takes it upto 15/16psi once again and iirc doesnt the rev2 run out of usable maps at 16psi I maybe wrong on that one but im sure ive read that somewhere where the rev3 has maps upto 18psi safely.

When my rev2's last boost controller gave up the ghost it spannered upto 25psi it went like a saturn 5 rocket and thought oh Sh*t i lifted off the throttle and thought she wouldn't of liked that one bit im surprised the headgasket or the pistons didn't give way it that would of been running lean as and ignition wouldn't cope.

[jimGTS]

I've ran a stock CT26 at 1.5 bar, and it held a solid 1.35 bar at 7k RPM. Definitely does not run out of puff in my experience. Boot mount intercooler set up.

The stock 440s are not at max duty at 15/16 psi on any turbo shy of a HX35 IMO. I ran the aforementioned 1.5 bar (22 psi) and AFR was a stable 11.5:1 with the stock ECU just to test things before fitting the standalone. Jeff Hartman (some mapping guy) ran 330whp (~420@fly, USA figures...) on stock 440s with race gas, 300whp without.

you wasnt running a stock ct26 if it was pulling 1.3bar to redline.
it is clearly documented that they cant hold much more than 0.8bar to redline. they could peak alot higher obviously, but behond 6k rpm, it really doesnt hold alot more than 12-13psi.
you had to of had some sort of hybrid.

US figures are to be taken with a pinch of salt, there whp numbers are not far off of our flywheel numbers, maybe add 5% to get there flywheel figures.
not to mention you wont be losing 90hp from fly to wheels, 330whp, if that was on a dyno over here, would be about 380-390flywheel, not 420.
there dynoed 330whp on a dynojet in US is like 350hp at best IMO.

thy stock rev1/2 sends injectors to 100% duty as soon as it sees behond 13psi, where stock fuel cut is.

what is the lmit of stock 440s at 100% duties, id guess 330ish hp, 280whp (on pump).

[Turbonoz]

Full meticulous service history came with the car. Stock CT26, inspected before it was sold. Held 1.35 bar with a BMIC set up, Profec B Spec2 & Link G3 ECU. Did the same on the stock ECU but I generally kept boost down to 1.2 bar top end as it was on the ragged edge timing-wise. IATs were fine (values on here somewhere). Replicate the exact set up and then say I either did or didn't, all I can report is what actually happened

I'm not the only one that has run the CT26 at these levels.

I already alluded to the fact that USA figures are on the optimistic side.

I've never personally looked into the workings of the stock ECU, if it can't be mapped, it doesn't interest me. I did not experience injectors at 100% duty at 13 psi, where can I read up on this? All the ECUs I've ever worked with simply use the values in the final column as a reference for additional air flow / load.

[jimGTS]

you have 20 years service history including everything in japan?


sorry, but i dont see how a stock turbo can run those levels to redline.

how can a boot mount, ebc and ecu possibly "help" it run high boost to redline. that is really no different to any other bolt on setup.
i would like to know how you think this setup helps over others to run high boost to redline?

perhaps the exhaust housing was worked on and you didnt know?

im not saying your setup didnt run that boost, but i am saying i find it hard to believe it was a bone stock ct26.

stock ecu only have fuel maps up until fuel cut, some say rev1/2 was at 13psi, some say rev1 is 13psi, rev2 15-16psi.
i dont know where i read it, but someone plugged into the stock ecu and saw duties at 100% when it was over fuel cut levels. still had timing maps obviously.
how true this is, am only going on what i read.

[Al-sw20]

There is still enough fuel for 19psi on a ct20b on the stock ecu, 440s and pump.

[T.F.S.]

IMO my car always ran like a dog on stock management...one of the reasons people think the engine/pistons/gasket is weak is because of the stock ECU getting its knickers in a twist and hitting det.

[bobhatton]

For the last two year I have been racing with 1.5 bar boost on a stock Rev 2 engine, it has never been taken apart. This year changed to a CT20b at the same boost and never had a problem.
The head bolts have had an extra 90 deg turn on each of them and run on 110 octane fuel

My son has a t3/4 turbo, 263 cams, side exit exhaust, charge cooler and all running on a Rev3 ECU