Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Discussion and technical advice the SW20 MR2. 3S-GTE, 3S-GE, 3S-FE etc
Anything and everything to do with maintenance, modifications and electrical is in here for the Mk2.

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Essex MR2

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Essex MR2 »

TBH neither the NA or turbo are slow and both are fun to drive in whatever circumstances you want, whether that's on the road or on the track. These cars are all about the enjoyment of driving, for some that's via NA cars, for others, like myself, you can't get enough of that turbo feeling/sound. Everyone's different, that what makes the wrld so interesting!!! :wink: :lol:
Aidy

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Aidy »

Vindezal wrote:Tis one of the reasons I didnt go for this model as the N/a drives better as a daily drive i.e on pick up. :wink:

But! I cant be sure. is the turbo bit slugish if driving normally?

Boost = £££££


The only time you'll have a problem is if you bog down when pulling out a junction. Not nice when something is racing toward you and you're waiting for the lag to go :) Other than that it certainly isn't an issue I'd worry about.
Aidy

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Aidy »

jonno wrote:Wheel out the mighty N/A's at the IMOC trackday and I will see if I can keep up. The deal is that if I manage to keep up with them, can we stop this stupid argument once and for all please? I would also offer the same deal for the MkI's - lets face it, MkI's and N/A's just arnt as fast on circuit as a Turbo, why do we waste so much time arguing about it?

Pointless.


LOL, already been down a hundred times mate. Nas and tubbys always put in near identical performance on track. I've overtaken plenty of turbos in my old NA yet, as you say, this argument just rumbles on and on.

The cars are not different enough to make a big difference on track so it all comes down to driver ability. A good driver in an NA will beat an average driver in a turbo and vice versa. Put a good driver in the turbo and it will be slightly faster but we're not setting the world on fire.
Aidy

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Aidy »

Chris 'aka rustboy' Ammon wrote:i think it's just the NA's being a tad jealous they couldn't afford the proper MK2


:lol: Yeah, tubby owners used to think that back when I had my NA too.

Of course I could extend the argument and say you only have your MR2T cos you couldn't afford something better yourself ;)
Aidy

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Aidy »

lower wrote:my view is that it is easier to drive an NA on the limit on a track than a turbo because the power delivery is more linear. on a feathered throttle with the turbo when you apply throttle the torque comes in very suddenly and that is what can cause you problems if you are not prepared for it. With an NA you don't get the big lump of torque.


That's not really true. Not being derogatory but have you ever driven a turbo charged car? Turbos are not either on or off and the accelerator likewise is not an on/off switch. The only surge you get from a turbo is when lag is overcome. When taking a corner this is only an issue if you change gear midway through. If you are on-boost coming into the corner then the power delivery is still subtle and predictable.
Bender Unit
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Bender Unit »

Of course I could extend the argument and say you only have your MR2T cos you couldn't afford something better yourself

Yeah just think you could have got a badly made saloon with a big spoiler instead. :D
craig
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by craig »

Aidy wrote:
Chris 'aka rustboy' Ammon wrote:i think it's just the NA's being a tad jealous they couldn't afford the proper MK2


:lol: Yeah, tubby owners used to think that back when I had my NA too.

Of course I could extend the argument and say you only have your MR2T cos you couldn't afford something better yourself ;)


LMFAO =D> :twisted: :twisted:
Jimbob
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Jimbob »

Yeah just think you could have got a badly made saloon with a big spoiler instead.


And too many doors! :D

on a feathered throttle with the turbo when you apply throttle the torque comes in very suddenly and that is what can cause you problems


Not on my car its already boosting on a feathered throttle the extra squeeze of the accelerator just gives a bit more boost.
Aidy

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Aidy »

<Chris 'aka rustboy' Ammon>
Your all just jealous cos the only £25k car you can buy is one that's now 12 years old :tongue:
</Chris 'aka rustboy' Ammon>
DaMonsta

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by DaMonsta »

Hi:

I used to race motorcycles in my day, and we always used to say that the fastest guy on the road was the slowest on the track. It is a fact that a well-sorted turbo car will beat a well-sorted NA car given equal skill of driver. But I reckon that a lot of the turbo owners get used to seeing other cars getting smaller in their rear-view mirrors... on the road... but on the track it's a different story.

On the track it is all about maintaining speed.

For example, in the early 1990s I used to pitch my Aprilia 125 race bike against Honda Fireblades and the like at Snetterton (one of my favourite tracks). 35 HP against a hundred and thirty five (or thereabouts). These were road-riders, I admit, but they couldn't get past me. A few did on the end of the main straight, but I was soon past them and they'd try again on the back straight and, by the time I'd hit the "bomb hole", they'd be several bike-lengths behind.

You see, long-standing avid NA owners have to work their cars to get the most out of them. If I am going to take you in your turbo car then I cannot do it on the straight. I'm gonna take you on the brakes on the entrance to a curve. If you are just a smidgen off-line then the nose of my car will be pushing you to the outside. Now you are in trouble! You can't turn in, because I'm there. You are off-line and no amount of power is going to help you. There are no traffic-lights to stop us and nothing is coming the other way. This is a track and different rules apply.

So you get mad and try to take me but a curve is coming up, and another one, and another one. You think you will take me on the main straight. But by the time we get there I am 3 car-lengths ahead and 20mph faster. You could have taken me... if the straight was another 200 yards... but it wasn't... and so you try again...

Now don't get me wrong, if I were in a turbo car against me in a NA I would win. But my theory is, most of the turbo owners get used to being fast on the road and, subsequently, end up being slowest on track.

Regards,
Jim
Gazboy
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Gazboy »

Why do people think turbo owners can't drive on track?

30bhp vs 130bhp at Britains fastest track- a glorified airfield?????
BrianUK
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:)

Post by BrianUK »

Mines RED - so its GOTTA be faster...
DaMonsta

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by DaMonsta »

Yeah, but I bet mine is redder... lol.

Regards,
Jim
jonno
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by jonno »

DaMonsta wrote:....most of the turbo owners get used to being fast on the road and, subsequently, end up being slowest on track.


What makes you think that turbo owners are all bad track drivers? I cant help thinking that a few more pasenger rides are in order at the next trackday ;)
Forever Feels Like Home, Sitting All Alone Inside Your Head...
steve
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by steve »

this thread is excellent - 35bhp race bikes vs 130bhp road bikes thats exactly the same as an n/a vs a turbo both with the same chassis.

N/A drivers are gods gift & turbo drivers cant drive, n/a drivers get the most out their cars - turbo drivers dont... err wtf? blah blah blah...

carry on chaps :lol:
lower
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by lower »

Aidy wrote:
lower wrote:my view is that it is easier to drive an NA on the limit on a track than a turbo because the power delivery is more linear. on a feathered throttle with the turbo when you apply throttle the torque comes in very suddenly and that is what can cause you problems if you are not prepared for it. With an NA you don't get the big lump of torque.


That's not really true. Not being derogatory but have you ever driven a turbo charged car? Turbos are not either on or off and the accelerator likewise is not an on/off switch. The only surge you get from a turbo is when lag is overcome. When taking a corner this is only an issue if you change gear midway through. If you are on-boost coming into the corner then the power delivery is still subtle and predictable.


i think it is true, and yes i had a mr2 turbo for 4 years before the s2000. The torque comes in much more suddenly in a turbo car than an na when you feather the throttle and then reapply. Some of that is due to the fact that turbo's have more torque than na's anyway so if if feathering the thottle loses you 30% of the torque, when you reapply the the throttle you are getting back 30% of a greater torque figure anyway.

its a bit of pot calling the kettle black with you now doing the asking if i've driven a turbo. Have you ever actually driven an mr2 turbo aidy? You always used to trot out the arguement of the na being as quick as a turbo on a track but you'd never actually driven one.
mcfly

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by mcfly »

I like this thread, it makes me want a BEAMS transplant
Aidy

Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by Aidy »

mcfly wrote:I like this thread, it makes me want a BEAMS transplant


Then supercharge it :twisted:
michael
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Re: Arent turbos sluggish when trying to drive off boost??

Post by michael »

LOL - 7 pages of complete cack from those poor poor NA types :)

I note a lot of people using the Supra as a benchmark of cars they have overtaken, an ideal victim given it has two of those pesky lag makers under the bonnet, weighs more than a small house and is generally driven by someone with no skill :roll:

I'd much rather have a Caterhamfield thing, they are much faster around the track, oh have I shown you this pic of one moving out of my way after being slower than me for two full laps and getting in the way on the twisties and the straights?

http://www.megaboost.co.uk/supra/mine/e ... 80_sm.html

You can't generalise on these things, I'm a crap driver but still overtook a Caterwotsit and have done many times on the road and on the track, all it means is that they are even worse at driving than I am.

As has been said already it's not the car, it's how you use it and anyone who disagrees should grab a passenger ride with Jonno at Elvington, in fact Neil should charge people for passenger rides, it's really that much fun!

I'm looking into getting an even bigger turbo on my car at the moment, is it because I want to go slower or faster I wonder?
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