Distributorless Ignition (COP) for Power FC/Gen3 ECU

[NoddE]

Buyers:
-lmt (MR2 Australia)
-madmr2 (MR2 Australia)
-mister_two (MR2 Australia)
-MRGen3Turbo (MR2 Australia)
-MR11GT (MR2 Australia)
-cbishop11 (MR2OC)
-Southwestspeed (MR2OC)
-flynace (IMOC)
-Blue2 (MR2 Australia)
-TwinS (IMOC)
-JUnit1236 (MR2OC)
-JP (IMOC)
-slipping clutch (IMOC)
-eazy2001x (MR2OC)
-TURBRO (MR2OC)
-jose91t (MR2OC)
-Richthammer (IMOC)
-skywaves (mr2.com)


I have been working on a kit that now allows Power FC uses to use Sequential ignition (Coil on plug) and get rid of the distributor cap, rotor and ignition wires.

It easily handles 450whp with stock plug gap (0.8 mm) on iridium plugs, and they can probably handle even more power without problems.

This kit does not mess up the base ignition timing as long as you dont move around the distributor assy.

Installation time would be anything from around 3 hours and up.


two (not to great) videos from the initial testing i did:

YouTube - MrTwo_Idle_PowerFC_COPs.mp4

YouTube - MrTwo_Cold_Start_PowerFC_COPs.mp4



Picture of complete kit:




The price for my kit will be 170 GBP incl shipping, then you have to get 4 parts on your own to complete the kit.
I decided to make it like this because it will be the most cost effective way for you.

Depending on where or how you get these additional parts,
the total price for a sequential ignition system will end up around 250-300 GBP.
It does work with the regular gen3 ECU (or PFC without changing the Dwell/charge time for the coils), but i recommend that you have a datalogit to change the dwell to the optimum values.

The kit includes these parts:

1pc Box (Sequential module)
1pc Bracket (for Igniter)
1pc Harness (5-wire Extension & 3-wire Signal harness)
1pc Serial cable (for the Box)
1pc Corrugated tube (Cover for the ignition coils harness)
1pc Crimp tube (for the soldering)
1pc 1-pin female plug (for the OEM power wire)
1pc 5-pin male plug (for the Coils harness)
1pc resistor (for the Tacho meter)
1pc M6 bolt (to mount box to fire wall in trunk compartment)
2pcs M5 bolt & lock washer for igniter (igniter version dependent)
3pcs M4 bolt & lock washer for igniter (igniter version dependent)


Parts to get on your own:

4pcs Honda (Denso) CBR600RR Coil (03-09) (Get used ones from Ebay)
Part number: 129700-4510 or J0451

OR

4pcs Suzuki (Denso) GSX-R Coil (00-03) (Get used ones from Ebay)
Part number: 129700-4150 or J0396
(I can not guarantee what power these are good for as i have not tried them yet but the length is right and they have similar spec as the CBR coils)

4pcs Denso Spark plug w/ removable terminal (I recommend sparkplugs.co.uk)
Part number: Q22PR-U (copper) or IK22 (iridium 0.4mm tip)

1pc Toyota Supra MK4 Igniter (Get used ones from Ebay or driftmotion.com)
Part number: 89621-22020 (old number) or 89621-22030 (new number)

1pc Yamaha R1 Coil Harness (04-09) (Get a used one from Ebay)

NOTE: The Earlier 04-06 harness has a big grey connector while the Later 07-09 harness has a big black connector. I recommend to get the later black plug harness as the earlier one is a bit to short. It can however be used if the 5 wires in the harness gets extended by 3” or if you route the harness on the intake side of the coil instead of the exhaust side.

picture of the (to) short harness:


-I will have a warranty on my parts (wiring, soldering and that the circuit works when I ship it as I will test every single circuit on my car), but I can not take responsibilty for whatever you do, and what happens to your engine as there is to many variables to take into account.

Regards
Jimmy

[Spidey]

Hey Jimmy

Would you have any more pics where you can see more of the engine bay ?

I was just wondering if I can go for this kit, while having the ST205 CC fitted ?

And, what is the Euro price ?

Also, what settings need to be changed on the PFC ?

Thanks
Rob

[NoddE]

Hi

I will post up a few more pictures. But I think that if you can fit oem spark plugs wires you should be able to fit this kit to as im not using coils with built in igniters (not a fan of it) which are just as low as oem ign wire boots

Well you should be able to drive it as is (no change), but I can not tell how long the coils will last because i dont know if they take any harm from the excessive? dwell time at lower rpm. However i did test oem dwell times for 15 min idleing and 15 min driving, and when i stopped the car I could pull the coils out with my hands without burning myself, its not a proof that the coils will last but at least they did not get burning hot.

I do however recommend to change the dwell setting with a datalogit or similar to around 3ms (the install manual tells you what to set it to).

Regards
Jimmy

[NoddE]

I lowered the price to 170 GBP as i noticed that shipping was cheaper within EU

That would be about 200 Euro I think.

Observe that these CBR coils uses a Yamaha Rx boot covers to make the fit look better, and to make them sit securly I cut of the ring from the old oem boot covers:







Let me know if this answers your question

[Rosssco]

Any idea if this set-up would work ok with other after market ECU's? In my case a Link G3 XLEM.

Sorry for the dumb questions, but where does this set up get its trigger reference from? Does it perhaps use the existing distributer rotor arrangement?

Thanks,
Ross

[NoddE]

no dumb questions

It uses the same trigger signals as the ecu (from the dizzy)

If the Link uses the same signals as the oem ecu, then it will work.

If the link ecu has a tacho output and the ecu does not need the IGF signal (ignition confirmation signal) then you can choose another igniter if you want, or use coils with built in igniters if you prefer that, but the harness included have to be modified in those cases. Whats good with the supra igniter is that it has both tacho output and IGF output = makes the oem ecu happy.

Here is the url to the australian group buy as a reference, might find more info there to:

http://mrtwo.mine.nu/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21904

[jon]

So in theory if it was possible to change the stock ECU to use a dwell of 3ms, this kit should be as reliable on the stock ECU as the PFC?

[NoddE]

True
Oem dwell at higher rpm is about 3 ms. Its just down low that its higher. OEM dwell times:

1000: 5,5ms
2000: 4,5ms
4000: 3,8ms
8000: 2,9ms
10000: 2,35ms (max limit before the ecu has to switch over to the next cylinder)

A note though, the oem coil (single) basically charge 24/7.. while this coil setup has 4 coils to take turns = 3/4 of the time they are resting so i dont know how "dangerous" it is to charge them to long at lower rpm. I say this because at cranking the coil/coils charge as much as they can before they give the initial spark and the oem coil doesnt seem to take any harm from that.

[Rogue]

Any idea if this set-up would work ok with other after market ECU's? In my case a Link G3 XLEM.

The G3 XLEM supports sequential ignition out of the box.

[Rosssco]

Any idea if this set-up would work ok with other after market ECU's? In my case a Link G3 XLEM.

The G3 XLEM supports sequential ignition out of the box.

Yeah I read that, but would have no idea how to wire it up or modify the software..! NoddE seems to be taking some of the hassle out of with this kit...

[Rogue]

Any idea if this set-up would work ok with other after market ECU's? In my case a Link G3 XLEM.

The G3 XLEM supports sequential ignition out of the box.

Yeah I read that, but would have no idea how to wire it up or modify the software..! NoddE seems to be taking some of the hassle out of with this kit...

Grab a set of 1ZZFE COPs - shouldn't cost more than £50 and they drop straight in. There are four pins on each, +12v, GND, IGF and IGT. Ignore IGF, +12v needs 12v and GND goes to ground. Each IGT then goes to the relevant output on the ECU. A few drop down options to change on the ECU software (get a pro to do this if you need to) and Bob's your donkey.

NoddE's kit looks fantastic for the right application, but you already have the complicated electrickery to do the job.

[Rosssco]

The G3 XLEM supports sequential ignition out of the box.

Yeah I read that, but would have no idea how to wire it up or modify the software..! NoddE seems to be taking some of the hassle out of with this kit...

Grab a set of 1ZZFE COPs - shouldn't cost more than £50 and they drop straight in. There are four pins on each, +12v, GND, IGF and IGT. Ignore IGF, +12v needs 12v and GND goes to ground. Each IGT then goes to the relevant output on the ECU. A few drop down options to change on the ECU software (get a pro to do this if you need to) and Bob's your donkey.

NoddE's kit looks fantastic for the right application, but you already have the complicated electrickery to do the job.

Do the 1ZZ-FE coils not run off an ignitor unit? If so am I not better getting a hold of this and the relevant wiring straight to the individual coils..? I think I'll need to read up on this!

Sorry NoddE, I'm hyjacking your thread!

[RyanRs]

Yeah I read that, but would have no idea how to wire it up or modify the software..! NoddE seems to be taking some of the hassle out of with this kit...

Grab a set of 1ZZFE COPs - shouldn't cost more than £50 and they drop straight in. There are four pins on each, +12v, GND, IGF and IGT. Ignore IGF, +12v needs 12v and GND goes to ground. Each IGT then goes to the relevant output on the ECU. A few drop down options to change on the ECU software (get a pro to do this if you need to) and Bob's your donkey.

NoddE's kit looks fantastic for the right application, but you already have the complicated electrickery to do the job.

Do the 1ZZ-FE coils not run off an ignitor unit? If so am I not better getting a hold of this and the relevant wiring straight to the individual coils..? I think I'll need to read up on this!

Sorry NoddE, I'm hyjacking your thread!

1ZZ's have built in igniters. Like Patrick said, 3 wires, couple of clicks in the Link software (ignition setup > Ignition mode) and its done. I just got 4 1zz cops for £24 posted ;P

[NoddE]

Did you get the connectors from the place i tiped you about to?

Enough said.. back to topic... start your own thread god damn it! Admin!! they are raping my thread here do something

[RyanRs]

Did you get the connectors from the place i tiped you about to?

Enough said.. back to topic... start your own thread god damn it! Admin!! they are raping my thread here do something

Thats where im looking atm bud Just going to pop to the scrappie first tho to see if theres a set i can snip off a car. Would save me a lot of time and money that way. What baffles me with that link you gave me is the cost to post it to the UK, it would be cheaper if i got the clips sent to my friend in Illinois then have them forward it on to me!

Dw, ill leave your thread alone now btw lol

[Spidey]

Can I use your kit, 1zz coils and a pfc ?

[NoddE]

With a few extra modifications it should work.
The supra igniter gives the two features that the mr2 has/need (tacho out and IGF to ecu signal).
1. You can use the igf from one of the coils to make the ecu happy.
2. To get a tacho output you should be able to splice the tacho wire to the igt wire to get a 5V signal to the tacho (oem signal is about 24V so a resistor needs to be changed on the tacho circuit board, but its a no brainer to replace)
3. you need to modify the harness a bit but I can help you sort that out (no need for you to get that yamaha harness or those special spark plugs).

In theory this should work but I can not guarantee anything, but so far all my theories with the kit i made seemed to work so..

[Spidey]

Okay, I am going back to very basics and have a few questions, if you don't mind.

On a stock MR2, the distributor fires to each spark plug ? So, it is purely a mechanical process ? no ECU involvement ?

And in this COP setup, each COP is connected back to where ? to the sequential box you provide ? and this goes to the PFC ?

I am looking at FC Edit now - what setting in there is telling it to use sequential ignition ?

Sorry - just trying to get my head around how it works.

[NoddE]

Okay, I am going back to very basics and have a few questions, if you don't mind.

On a stock MR2, the distributor fires to each spark plug ? So, it is purely a mechanical process ? no ECU involvement ?

And in this COP setup, each COP is connected back to where ? to the sequential box you provide ? and this goes to the PFC ?

I am looking at FC Edit now - what setting in there is telling it to use sequential ignition ?

Sorry - just trying to get my head around how it works.

The ecu sends out one signal to the igniter to control timing, the singel coil then fires one time for each cylinder, the distributor then gates this spark to the right cyl. My kit splits and gates this one ignition signal from the ecu to 4 signals, it does not modify it in any way. The trigger (ignition) signal to each 1zz coil therefore comes from my box. In the datalogit you only change the dwell.

[NoddE]

There has been alot of interest and questions around this product but not many purchases except in Australia. So I have decided that I will pay the shipping cost for orders placed and paid during February to see if it helps boost the sale I have on this limited run of kits Ive made.

= £160 shipped with tracking