Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

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speedtwelve
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:28 pm
Location: 300 miles south of Edinburgh

Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by speedtwelve »

Hi, hope someone can help...

Bought a rev 1 turbo from a mate, only mods are K+N induction, s/s decat exhaust, BOV. No form of aftermarket boost control. He had the car dyno'd at 230 bhp at the fly. The car boosted smoothly up to the '+' mark on the boost gauge. After he had it a while the indicated boost dropped to around 7 psi, although still boosting smoothly to this level. Car run on optimax, there are no ecu error codes, and several ecu resets were performed.

Checked the hoses, no leaks, suspected the T-VSV was limiting boost. Disconnected the hose that runs from the actuator to the T-VSV to 'simulate' the T-VSV opening and the car boosted all the way to '+'. Then checked the pin from the ecu that triggers the T-VSV and found that it was at +12v, indicating the ECU reckons the engine is knocking and won't allow T-VSV to let the car boost over 7 psi ( pin goes to ground to activate T-VSV, btw). The car always gets optimax, it is running rich enough (soot on exhausts, a little black smoke on boost), it doesn't overheat on boost, and there is no audible pinking at any time. I decided to check the ignition timing in case it was too far advanced and causing pinking. Dizzy was already set fully-anticlockwise (retarded as far as it will go?), but with strobe triggering off no1 HT lead and TE1 and E1 shorted on the diagnostic port I can see no timing mark on the crank pulley. The 'writing' on the alternator belt is 'moving' when I fire the strobe at it, surely this should be stationary? I even put a tippex mark on the crank pulley and tried the strobe again but nothing!

Regardless of the position of the dizzy I see no timing mark under the strobe. Firstly, is the timing somehow so far out of whack that I can't adjust it by turning the dizzy? The car runs fine apart from the boost limitation, remember. Secondly, is it possible the car isn't in fact detonating and there is some ECU problem with the T-VSV trigger signal? Is it possible for the knock sensor to give a spurious 'knock' signal yet not produce an ECU error code?

Thanks in advance!

ST
nisnos
Posts: 1023
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:21 pm

Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by nisnos »

sounds like your in safe mode.
do the 3 fuse reset or unplug the battery for 5 mins.

to up the boost you need fcd ang either mbc or ebc. best to be safe.

loads of posts about safe mode do a quick search.
MR2_RICH
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:49 am
Location: Staffordshire

Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by MR2_RICH »

No it's not in safe mode.

I'm currently having the same problem - well thats the least of my problems so haven't got round to looking at it yet.

Mine all started after I serviced the car. New leads, plugs , dizzy and rotor arm. Seems to be something I've done here. Plan is to replace each of the parts with the original ones I still have and see if thats the root of my problem. Starting with the plugs then leads etc.

Process of ilimination.

Maybe worth checking on yours.

oh I'm not sure regarding the timing except to say I think the markings should remain steady.

hth :mrgreen:
MR2_RICH
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:49 am
Location: Staffordshire

Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by MR2_RICH »

speedtwelve
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:28 pm
Location: 300 miles south of Edinburgh

Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by speedtwelve »

Thanks for the replies

The car is in safe mode in as far as the ECU is restricting the boost by not triggering the T-VSV. I have performed several ECU resets to no avail.

MR2_Rich, cheers for the link. I'll have another go at checking timing tonight.

ST
BenF
Premium Member
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Location: Ipswich
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Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by BenF »

speedtwelve wrote:
Checked the hoses, no leaks, suspected the T-VSV was limiting boost. Disconnected the hose that runs from the actuator to the T-VSV to 'simulate' the T-VSV opening and the car boosted all the way to '+'.



This is a bad thing to do - basically it stops the wastegate working at all and you get uncontrolled boost - you could see 18psi in taller gears :shock:


Then checked the pin from the ecu that triggers the T-VSV and found that it was at +12v, indicating the ECU reckons the engine is knocking and won't allow T-VSV to let the car boost over 7 psi ( pin goes to ground to activate T-VSV, btw).


If you didn't change the timing it will be detting like mad with the hose pulled off.



The car always gets optimax, it is running rich enough (soot on exhausts, a little black smoke on boost), it doesn't overheat on boost, and there is no audible pinking at any time. I decided to check the ignition timing in case it was too far advanced and causing pinking. Dizzy was already set fully-anticlockwise (retarded as far as it will go?), but with strobe triggering off no1 HT lead and TE1 and E1 shorted on the diagnostic port I can see no timing mark on the crank pulley. The 'writing' on the alternator belt is 'moving' when I fire the strobe at it, surely this should be stationary? I even put a tippex mark on the crank pulley and tried the strobe again but nothing!

Regardless of the position of the dizzy I see no timing mark under the strobe. Firstly, is the timing somehow so far out of whack that I can't adjust it by turning the dizzy? The car runs fine apart from the boost limitation, remember. Secondly, is it possible the car isn't in fact detonating and there is some ECU problem with the T-VSV trigger signal? Is it possible for the knock sensor to give a spurious 'knock' signal yet not produce an ECU error code?

Thanks in advance!

ST


If you kill the knock sensor, the car will run but very badly - been there, done that (!)

Have a look at the article in the knowledge base on reading the timing - set it to 10deb BTDC and your boost back to standard. Using a quality boost gauge check the boost level you're getting - the gauge in the dash is hopeless.

If you're still not getting 10psi, check the HT stuff (dizzy cap, rotor, HT leads, plugs and plug gaps-0.8mm) and if its not that, I'd wonder if the standard cat had melted clogging the exhaust - that results in wierd symptoms and low boost.
speedtwelve
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:28 pm
Location: 300 miles south of Edinburgh

Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by speedtwelve »

BenF,

Took the hose off the T-VSV purely to see if the boost was being T-VSV limited. Ran it at full throttle only for a few seconds to confirm 10 psi on my Greddy boost gauge. With T-VSV connected I was getting 7 psi. Only ran it with the hose off at full throttle for a few seconds to check the turbo and HT were capable of producing proper boost, then reconnected T-VSV. I don't like melted pistons :lol: Anyway, even if the boost did run away there's the fuel cut...

The ECU output to the T-VSV was checked with T-VSV hose connected, hence the boost being limited to 7 psi...

Seeing as I can produce 10 psi (accurately measured), albeit without boost protection, the HT and turbo seem to be in good nick. Checked the ignition timing, it was retarded all the way. Set it to 10 degrees BTDC, reset ECU, and still only 7 psi! AAAARRGGHHHH!

ST
MR2lover

Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by MR2lover »

Mate just reading through your post

IF your ecu pinout to the tvsv is live 12v then that is good. as alot of people connect a LED to that Pinout and basically when that light is on it mean the car is in high boost mode and not stock. so basically if there wasn't 12v then the car would have detected knock or something

There is a website that tell you how to do it and all about tvsv

http://www.mrtwo.net/mr2modproject/mod/ ... cators.htm
speedtwelve
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:28 pm
Location: 300 miles south of Edinburgh

Re: Rev 1 turbo - Ignition timing and detonation...

Post by speedtwelve »

MR2lover

Soz mate, but if you look at the BGB schematic for the T-VSV wiring the ECU trigger signal (TPC) is +12v for T-VSV off and 0v for T-VSV on. The other terminal on the T-VSV is permanently at +12v, so the solenoid only operates when the ECU signal goes to 0v. To get an LED to light when the T-VSV is 'on' you need to connect the LED anode to a +12v rail and the cathode to the TPC pinout on the ECU.

Cheers for the link, BTW!

ST
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