cam upgrade

[mihogal12]

can anyone reccomend a camshaft upgrade for the 4agze engine. will the same cam kit from a 4age fit? im am doing my timing belt soon and i am thinking of doing a cam upgrade too while im at it.

[cartledge_uk]

Nothing too big on a forced induced engine, apararntly 256 cams give good results on the 4agze, although oyu'll need venier pulleys and its an expensive upgrade for 5bhp

And yes, the same as the 4age

[mihogal12]

is that all of a bhp gain u get? it is an expensive upgrade in that case. is the difference noticable?

[PW@Woodsport]

Waste of time and money in my opinion

[MartG]

I assume you've already upgraded the crank pulley and modified/blanked the ABV, as that's the quickest & cheapest way to get more power out of a GZE ?

[cartledge_uk]

is that all of a bhp gain u get? it is an expensive upgrade in that case. is the difference noticable?

Most people haven't got cams in a 4agze over here (or a 4age for that matter). The BHP gain on its own for changing cams really isn't worth it, although in combination with a number of things you can eek more power from it, but what mild upgrade cams do do is improve the top end where the charger starts getting wheezy (thats what they say on the us and aus forums).

Pulley's, better intercooler or charge cooler will give you more bang for £.

[Fab4MR2]

I think a 5hp gain is being a little pessimistic. I would expect closer to 8-12 at least, if you dial them in correctly with adjustable pulleys. There are an awful lot of people who use them in the States, and I doubt that they would bother if the gains were no more than 5hp.
When Turbo Magazine did its original review of the HKS exhaust, 256 cams, pulleys, filter, and ignition, for the MKI 4agze, I believe the cams added at least 8-12hp, and they were added after the exhuast, pulley, and filter, which are normal routes to go before adding cams.
The 4agze can probably take advantage of them a little easier than the NA since it doesn't have to waste as much fuel out of the exhaust in order to fill the combustion chamber properly. The idea with forced induction is to make sure you don't have too much overlap.
Cams with good lift, but small duration periods are ideal for forced induction. Cams like the TED KK294's, which have only about 244 degrees of duration work quite well, extending the top end while not hurting the bottom end torque.
Remember that the '87-89 NA's and 4agze all came with even milder cams than the original 85-86 MKI NA's had, since emission controls were becoming more of a concern. I know my '85 always revved much better than my '87.

[System-G]

Yeah, but you're still going to be spending well over £300 for 8 - 12hp (absolute max) just isn't worth it IMO.

Over-sized crank pulley and ABV mod will give you around 30-40hp for less than £200.

So if the pulley/ABV mod is not done, do it then think about better cooling and then only cam upgrades followed by aftermarket mapable ECU, but by this point you'll be into £thousands if done properly.

Our old SC with Oversized crank pulley, ABV bypass and double-sized IC was putting out 180hp with over 200torques and was enough for the car - really enjoyable on road & track

Just before we lost the car to fire, I was woking on downsizing the SC pulley for another couple of ponies, but the project never completed

[Jim-SR]

Yeah, but you're still going to be spending well over £300 for 8 - 12hp (absolute max) just isn't worth it IMO.

Over-sized crank pulley and ABV mod will give you around 30-40hp for less than £200.

So if the pulley/ABV mod is not done, do it then think about better cooling and then only cam upgrades followed by aftermarket mapable ECU, but by this point you'll be into £thousands if done properly.

Our old SC with Oversized crank pulley, ABV bypass and double-sized IC was putting out 180hp with over 200torques and was enough for the car - really enjoyable on road & track

Just before we lost the car to fire, I was woking on downsizing the SC pulley for another couple of ponies, but the project never completed

aside from the obvious though of upping the boost, and excluding engines that are heavily undertuned from the factory, anyone that thinks they can get horsepower more cheaply than about £30/bhp lives in a dream world anyway (once you get past the simple stuff, e.g. about 130-140bhp on a 4A-GE, 180bhp on a GZE) the cost per bhp rockets. especially on the 4A-G(Z)E, its in a decent state of tune from the factory, the GZE is similar to the NA once you up the boost to as much as you can get away with. beyond that its small gains for large expense

if you want value for money with big horsepower then you wouldnt run the 4A-G(Z)E at all, and would start out with a 3S-GTE. assuming you want to go past 200bhp. if not then the GZE is cheap enough if you just do the simple cheap things to it. 190bhp is probably do-able for under a grand, you couldnt do a conversion for less.

[MartG]

Agreed - there comes a point at which it is cheaper to swap the engine than to continue tuning the 4A - unless of course there is a specific reason why a swap can't be done e.g. race series regulations

[cartledge_uk]

200torques

You watch too much top gear

Also some people hold an attachment to the 4a.

but as everyone says, its all about getting more boost and having it cooler.

[System-G]

200torques

You watch too much top gear

Probably

[Jim-SR]

Agreed - there comes a point at which it is cheaper to swap the engine than to continue tuning the 4A - unless of course there is a specific reason why a swap can't be done e.g. race series regulations

or unless you just love the noise!! you simply cant replicate a 4A-GE at 9000+rpm with any of the conversions.

ive never been able to decide between 4A-GE, 3S-GTE and 2ZZ-GE. the 4A-GE is totally cost prohibitive, but its an awesome engine. the 3S-GTE is heavy, with a heavy transmission, and less than ideal power delivery. whilst the 2ZZ is lightest, with the best transmission (although a little weak) but its an expensive and complicated swap (for someone weak with electrics at least).

the GZE, if its already present in the car, is probably actually the best of both worlds. an easy 180bhp, thats enough really. if you need more then as said, a conversion is the way forwards.

[luthor1]

Forged pistons with valve cutouts
Catcam 7105139
Big valve ported head with larger lifters (£900 for the head)
Throttle bodies
Exhaust manifold
exhaust
engine management

That'll see you 170bhp with plenty of torque at around 7000rpm, redline at 7800. Would be awesome.

Problem with the 4AGE is obvious, and simple - the head can't take cams with high lift and short duration so classis 4AG cams are wild duration with sod-all lift. If you machine the head to take wider lifters you can put the new catcams in which are awesome. Then you need to stop the valves hitting the piston tops, and you're away.

It is expensive, but would be awesome.

Andy

[cartledge_uk]

Its just one of those engines, just like the crossflow. I know people in the westfield world that have crossflows up to 170bhp, its cost them £1000's (most likely over £10k) when they could have stuck a 1.8 zetec in there (been in the same class) and a few mods for £3k at the same bhp, but they do it, for the love of the crossflow.

Its the same with the 4age.