Car won't idle

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Shmed
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

Hmmm, the BOV is stock, I think it's working as I hear some release of pressure after revving. I was going to pressure test the IC (with a home made thing like I saw on another thread) as I can't guarantee that I didn't break it putting it in. I have a spare intercooler in my shed, so I could plumb that one in.

I'm intrigued by the nozzle from the turbo-IC pipe as I'm pretty sure I don't have one.
JJ
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by JJ »

"I'm intrigued by the nozzle from the turbo-IC pipe as I'm pretty sure I don't have one."

Thinking straight, its a rev 3 thing.. its the feed for the a/c vsv on the rev 3... which I think you've accounted for in the feed to the vac pipe ( afm to turbo )

You should try doing a pressure test on the whole intake system .. manifold first... pressurise it, see if theres any leaks...

Alternatively, pull the hose off the back of the afm, see if you can wedge it shut... and pull one of the nozzles off and stick some air through it....

It'll save you trying to find a leak whilst the engine is running ( noise )

Know any mates with compressed bottled air ?! Get a fitting off it and do it that way ! :thumleft:
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Shmed
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

I think I might know someone with an air compressor (like the kind you can use for DIY car spraying), will that do?

To test the manifold, should I take the IC to throttle body pipe off and apply pressure through the throttle body? How do I stop the air coming out the other side (or should I block up the exhaust too)? Or should I stoip being lazy and get the thing off the car? :lol:
Shmed
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Location: Worcestershire

Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

Just done a bit of a 'dummy' run in the car (it's up on stands, so I just went through the gears so the ECU t hought the car was moving despite no load - visions of Ferris Bueller :shock: )

Now I have error code 52, which is the knock sensor. Is this bad?

I am working towards pressure testing, but just don't have the bits I need at the minute. When I squeeze the turbo to IC pipe, it is soft when not revving, then gioes hard as the boost comes in, and then goes soft again once the revs drop. I expected this would be the case, but if the pipe is noticabley getting hard, surely there isn't a major leak in the intake system?
JMR_AW11
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by JMR_AW11 »

Dunno if this helps but assuming you have fully reversed the mods back to a rev2 then your ECU + loom + diagnostic port supports a diagnostic datastream mode.

You can plug a reader into the connector (Your local Toyota garage will have one) and the data mode allows the mechanic to monitor loads of things to check for faults.

This datastream isn't there on a rev1 but it's there on rev 2 onwards. It's pretty basic and only refreshes at a 1 second rate but it is a useful party trick these ECUs support.

So you could at least ask a Toyota garage to look at what the ECU thinks of the problem...


BTW if healthy, the ECU has a map for idle speed so it tries to control the idle speed using the ISC valve. This is the kind of thing you can check via the ECU datastream.
Shmed
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

Thanks for the info Jeremy, I guess the car will be ok to drive to my local Toyota garage. I think the smoking of my turbo is actually the downpipe which is lagged with some kind of heat resistant cloth, so I don't think I'll be catching fire........
Shmed
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

Double post......
Shmed
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

JJ, would my injector resistor pack cause any issues as to how much fuel is being put in? I had to re-wire it as it had been cut off. Is it likely that this would cause the car to constantly over-fuel?
Shmed
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Location: Worcestershire

Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

JJ wrote:"I'm intrigued by the nozzle from the turbo-IC pipe as I'm pretty sure I don't have one."

Thinking straight, its a rev 3 thing.. its the feed for the a/c vsv on the rev 3... which I think you've accounted for in the feed to the vac pipe ( afm to turbo )

You should try doing a pressure test on the whole intake system .. manifold first... pressurise it, see if theres any leaks...

Alternatively, pull the hose off the back of the afm, see if you can wedge it shut... and pull one of the nozzles off and stick some air through it....

It'll save you trying to find a leak whilst the engine is running ( noise )

Know any mates with compressed bottled air ?! Get a fitting off it and do it that way ! :thumleft:


How do I stop air leaking out of the exhaust?
Shmed
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Location: Worcestershire

Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

JJ (or anyone else in the know), I think I've found my air leak, but it's in a really weird place. Had to prop the AFM to keep the car running and get under the car to check for leaks from the exhaust (I've done the BGB test of ALL of the ECU terminals, which only flagged one particular issue, the Oxygen sensor doesn't report any voltage when it is supposed to). This led me to check the exhaust for leaks (as per the flowchart in the BGB), and as soon as I got my head under there, it was like a wind tunnel from a hole between the engine and gearbox (see pics)

Image
Image
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What would cause me to lose pressure through there? Pretty worried now 8-[

This last one shows how I've blocked off the turbo VSV
Image

I might just reconnect that though as I only did that whilst testing pipes for air leaks.
Dale_V
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by Dale_V »

thats where the flywheel/clutch is... with the fly spinning around it will cause some air movement, and will escape through that hole

that is NOT your air leak/problem
Shmed
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

Damn damn damn!!!!!

Why can't I fix this fuccing thing!!!

(oh, and Cheers Dale :thumleft: )
JJ
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by JJ »

Shmed wrote:JJ, would my injector resistor pack cause any issues as to how much fuel is being put in? I had to re-wire it as it had been cut off. Is it likely that this would cause the car to constantly over-fuel?


I've wrote several replies and losing each one of them... server issues I guess.....

Rewiring in the injector resistor packs wont be causing any over fuelling issues .. you're simply sticking power to the injectors ( low impedance type hence resistors ), then the ecu is earth switching them.

As Dales mentioned on your photo thread... it is the gearbox bell housing...

Take a step back... see if you can get a correct voltage to each pin out.... If you've rewired the AFM up wrong for example, it wont throw an error code... but still misbehave...... could be worth getting 4 small spades and a set of wires, disconnecting the AFM connector and piggy backing the wires to the ecu just in case theres a short in the actual loom.

You not thought of picking up a rev 3 ecu and repinning it accordingly ???!! The Rev 3 ecu is map sensor driven, so if you have any air leaks on the induction.. ( unless in the manifold ) it wont affect the running of the engine.... Just a thought... its not quite rectifying it.... but if its been converted, it maybe unknown whats been cut and joined ??!!
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Shmed
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

I checked all of the ecu voltages last night and they all seem to check out bar four.

The AFM voltage should be no lower than 4v when closed, and I have 3.91v (what sort of tolerances are there?)

The Temp sensor had a completely different reading but as the coolant isn't at 80 degrees I think that is expected

The O2 sensor gives about 0.04v through the ECU and through the diag port. The BGB says to check the VE1 terminal (from memory) against a known good earth, which also produces no voltage. It then says to check for leaks in the exhaust (which I have a few little ones), that's when I thought I'd found the air leak and stopped looking.

The AC connection appears to be the wrong colour (it is red on mine and I think it should be black :oops: ), it also seems to work in the opposite to what the BGB says (i.e. when the AC is on, the voltage is 0 and when it is off it says 12v - or the other way round, I can't remember, but I know it is the opposite of what the book tells me).

Does anything seem untoward in that little lot? The BGB says if all the voltages check out, you should replace the ECU.
JJ
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by JJ »

Top of my head... doesn't seem anything wrong there.. though i know a duff water temp sensor can give you overfuelling issues....

The A/C switch will have an effect on the ecu too... can you just not disconnect it for the time being ?!?!

You're small exhaust leak ( if you have one ) wont affect the 02 reading that much... car should still run and idle.. even without one. AFM sounds right, tolences are fine....

hmmm... I've never really seen ecu's play up if I'm honest, it either works or it doesnt, doesn't start coming up with faults.. then having said that, if you've originally just plugged it in with the old wiring, you may have fried the of circuit ??!! Difficult to tell...

I'm sure I've got a rev 2 ecu kicking about !! Let me see if I can find it tonight ! :thumleft:
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Shmed
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

Maybe I'll take the water temp sensor out and test it. I didn't actually have to make changes to the wiring in the end, so I'm not sure what had happened to the car in the past. Like I say, I know it had a MAT sensor fitted, and at the very least a boost controller (if not a PowerFC).

Having checked the ECU I am a bit reluctant to take it to Toyota as I'm sure they will just go over what I have already done at some extreme cost.

I AM going to make a pressure tester this week as priority one to 100% rule out air leaks.

If I could try another ECU just to rule it out, that would be good :thumleft:

After that, I think the only avenue to explore is the fuelling system (or get someone else to look at my mechanical timing in case I have misjudged it).

My last resort I guess is to do my own rev 3 conversion as I have a rev 3 engine. I was planning to do the engine up over the next year and just run the rev 2 this summer.

Just a case of swapping exhaust manifold, turbo, MAP and MAT sensors, injectors (but not rail) and sourcing an ECU right?
steve b
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by steve b »

All this talk of safc, FPR's etc, but you previously mentioned going LINK anyway, why not just get a 2nd hand LINK then who cares what MAP sensor's, injectors etc are fitted, just set the LINK up appropriately. For the hell of it what not rip the dizzy, coil, ignitors whatever out and stick some COPS on at the same time.
'02 VX220 2.2 n/a Daily driver - Exige Size TD 1.2 - TAT shorty Diffuser - HardTop - Chris Tullet 4-1 Manifold.

'97 mk1 Mazda Eunos Turbo track car with 260bhp/ton - soon more as Chris Wilsons going to build me an engine over the winter :o) .
Shmed
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

Haven't got a Link going spare at all per chance?

I always said I will be going that route eventually, but wanted to make sure the engine was mechanically sound first. I guess the fact that it revs up tells me it is fine inside.

COPS?!?!
steve b
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Re: Car won't idle

Post by steve b »

Shmed wrote:I guess the fact that it revs up tells me it is fine inside.

COPS?!?!


No, it definately doesn't. A cracked ringland the car will drive perfect until on boost when it'll pressurize the bottom end and p1$$ oil everywhere it shouldn't be. Some cheeky b'stards try to pass it off as failed turbo when selling the cars on.

Coil on Plug, like 99% of modern engine have I believe the 2ZZFE COPS go on to the 3SGTE. I run 1ZZFE ones from the MR-S on my Mazda engine.


Image
'02 VX220 2.2 n/a Daily driver - Exige Size TD 1.2 - TAT shorty Diffuser - HardTop - Chris Tullet 4-1 Manifold.

'97 mk1 Mazda Eunos Turbo track car with 260bhp/ton - soon more as Chris Wilsons going to build me an engine over the winter :o) .
Shmed
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm
Location: Worcestershire

Re: Car won't idle

Post by Shmed »

That seems like something to consider. All I really want to do though, is get the car running so I can have some fun over the summer. All things like this can go on my new engine I'll be building for next year.
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