How to make a mk3 faster?

[CM1GT]

in my eyes the mk3 has always been the best design of the mr's, a proper lightweight 2 seater roadster, but they've always been a bit slow, so the questions is how can you make it quicker? the way i see it there are 3 options;

tune the 1zz na

turbo or supercharge it

swap it for something else

has anybody done any of the above? and what were the results? and if you dont mind me asking what were the costs? i'm especially interested in the possibilities of swapping the 1zz for the 2zz lump, in the celica that nocks 1.7 seconds off the 0-60 time, which would take the mk3 to 6 flat

[LimeyMk1]

BenF and Philster have both had turbo kits fitted to their Mk3s and Paul Woods has managed to shoehorn a V6 into one . I think Rogue have had a bit of a play with the MK3 too.

[greglebon]

I'm having a V6 put in by Woodsport as we speak.....!

There are a couple of v6's knocking around already, and Rogue did a 3SGTE a while back.......

I reckon the AE101 SC engine from my Mk1 would be really nice in a Mk3...?

I think its the general opinion that the 1ZZ Mr.T opted to fit to it was possibly the worst one of the (then) current bunch..?

They could have gone 4AGZE, 3SGTE, 3S "beams", 2ZZ, etc, etc......

Anyway, IMHO the 200hp that the V6 will give should go a long way to making the car what it should have been when it was launched......?

Unless you want a 10 sec 1/4 mile car, then there is a limit to the power actually NEEDED: after all, one of the main benefits of the MR2 is its handling / balance, etc.....

I would suggest that anything over 300hp would seriously compromise the traction and handling of the car, unless, of couse, you spend £££££££ on suspension / brake mods....?

I dunno.......it remains to be seen, I suppose?
One things for sure: over the next few years there will be some very interesting engines fitted to the Mk3, with a wide range of results....

Personally, I'm happy to live with the 200 horses....for a while, at least, anyway...!

My next avenue will defo be standalone ECU and supercharging.......
The 1MZ should handle 4-5 psi before it starts breaking up? Fitting stronger rods / forged pistons will minimise the risk of destruction, but then you're on the £££££ route...........?

Bang for buck, the 3SGTE has to be the thinking man's option, though.......

[BenF]

I considered all these different swaps when I was moving from my Mk2 Turbo to a Mk3 - in the end I've gone for the 1zz turbo option, for a number of reasons :

1. I'm a torque junkie - the 2zz wouldn't have 'felt' that much faster off cam low down, so unless you kept the engine wound right up you wouldn't see much benefit.

2. The turbo I've got is a Power Enterprises one, which is smaller than the GT series turbos most other turbo kits use.

I deliberately took the tradeoff of small turbo with less lag and smaller peak power figures than the other turbo kits make with GT series turbos.

Having said that, I'm getting ~240bhp and around 200ft/lbs on an engine whose internals are completely standard - given that is 100bhp more than standard, that's not bad going at all.

Its been very reliable - I bought the car with 45k miles on it 2 years old, have done a good few trackdays and it now is rapidly approaching 100k miles, all still running well.

If I did want an 'upgrade', I'd be seriously tempted to look at turbo'ing a 2zz lump. Toyota ( and Lotus ) do a Supercharged version of the 2zz lump, which would be very tempting - but it would foul on the firewall beneath the soft-top. If you were to run the car with a permanent hard top and modify the firewall, it would be almost tempting - but you're into fairly extreme mods there.

For the V6 swap, I hear it is very tight - with some conversions actually opening and running pipework inside the chassis rails due to space constraints.

Although if done properly by a professional that's probably OK, I'd personally worry about what the affect would be if you were involved in a heavy accident.

[Rogue]

Wow! It's surprising how little people know of what we do to mk3s!

So far we've installed turbochargers on 1ZZ engines and transplanted 3SGTE, 3SGE BEAMS, 2ZZ-GE, 2ZZ-GE supercharger and 1MZ-FE engines into the mk3. We currently have projects underway for turbocharged 2.0l 1ZZ-FE, turbocharged 2ZZ-GE and 2AD-FHV 2.2l turbo diesel!

2ZZ-GE


1MZ-FE:


3SGE BEAMS (Development Photo):


3SGTE:


There are some videos of the 1MZ-FE swap here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4aPmei-ao8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS4q6cYWqtM

It is a tight fit in the engine bay, but certainly no need to be routing pipework through parts of the chassis! We've done several V6 swaps - mainly for Ferrari 360 replicas - and even quoted to convert the three cars currently being used on the Top Gear World Tour. If you wanted to go V6 then 2GR-FE would be the weapon of choice, but they're harder to come by in the UK.

We've offered 2ZZ conversions for a couple of years now, most cars are geared for trackday use. We used a 2ZZ equipped Roadster for the Britcar 24hr race last year:



We're currently researching 2ZZ-GE supercharged solutions in a big way, for reasons that will become clear in time. It's very easy to draw inspiration from what Lotus have done with the Exige and Elise SC (the latter using the same technology as the Corolla Compressor).

Finally, the MR2 Roadster in 1ZZ trim is being introduced into the MR2 Championship this year, so we'll have some data to compare directly to it's previous incarnations.

At Rogue, we're into the mk3 in a BIG way right now! As I look down into the workshop we've got more Roadsters in than we have anything else at the moment.

Patrick

[BenF]

Patrick, you're a bad man and I'm not listening

Some very impressive projects you've got on the go there - good to hear your V6 swaps don't need the chassis rails modifying either.

I'd be very interested to hear in due course about your SC'd 2zz engine projects - with them, would you still be able to retain the standard soft-top?

Ben

[Rogue]

I'd be very interested to hear in due course about your SC'd 2zz engine projects - with them, would you still be able to retain the standard soft-top?

This will depend largely on whether the supercharger needs intercooling or not, and where we located the intercooler. The Elise SC uses a smaller none-intercooled Eaton M45 supercharger for around 220bhp. We've already installed one of these into an MR-S chassis and you wouldn't know it wasn't OEM. Full functionality of everything is retained. The 240bhp supercharged Lotus Exige however uses a larger Eaton M62 supercharger, which is intercooled and fed from the roof scoop. We'd need to come up with an alternative mounting location or custom hardtop roof. Chargecooling may be the way forward here.

Patrick

[CM1GT]

typically after i posted this i did a search for 2zz mr2s and there was a link to rogues advert for drive in drive out 2zz conversions

this has really got me thinking now, so i've come up with another question, which of these routes would work with the smt mk3? (as im looking for a road car auto would be my choice) i'm sure ive seen someone on here with a turbo'd 1zz smt, i take it not much else would work with the semi auto box

[jon_st205]

Are there any mods you can do to make a 'longer' person fit in the mk3? I'd love one in a year or two, but the with the seat all the way back, my right knee is jammed between door card and steering wheel.

[loadswine]

My V6 doesn't have pipework in the chassis rails either.
Woodsport have done a fantastic job of the install and made the Roadster an absolute peach to drive.

[Captain Vimes]

typically after i posted this i did a search for 2zz mr2s and there was a link to rogues advert for drive in drive out 2zz conversions

this has really got me thinking now, so i've come up with another question, which of these routes would work with the smt mk3? (as im looking for a road car auto would be my choice) i'm sure ive seen someone on here with a turbo'd 1zz smt, i take it not much else would work with the semi auto box

Hello! I've got a mk3 SMT turbo. But it's in pieces after the 1zz went pop (I bought it like this from Rowland on here - a search will show you what it was running).
I wouldn't want to start messing around trying to get any other SMT engine & box in it but I'm sure it's possible (I think the celica with 2zz may have come with SMT option..?).
If SMT is important you're probably better off going turbo 1zz (maybe I'm biased).

[Ekona]

Are there any mods you can do to make a 'longer' person fit in the mk3? I'd love one in a year or two, but the with the seat all the way back, my right knee is jammed between door card and steering wheel.

You can remove the internal big plastic door handle if you really want: I know of one Mk3 owner that had to do that to fit in it comfortably. How tall are you btw?


As for the Roadster and power, on my old car (1ZZ Hass turbo) I had two different boost levels set on the Profec. 10psi gave approx. 220bhp, yet I always left it at 8psi (or 200bhp) for the road as that's what felt 'right' to me. I've driven a 270bhp turbo'd Roadster and whilst it's good fun in a straight line, it felt that the car was always trying to kill you slightly. I would imagine that would've been sorted with a widebody kit so you can fit larger wheels, but then you kinda miss the whole point of the car. If I was doing it again, I'd be happy with a V6 in it putting around 200-220bhp down with the option of supercharging at a later date.

[jon_st205]

Cheers - yes it's the big silly door handle duberry which is the problem. I'm not massively tall - 6'2" - but obviously just the wrong shape for a mk3.

[greglebon]

Cheers - yes it's the big silly door handle duberry which is the problem. I'm not massively tall - 6'2" - but obviously just the wrong shape for a mk3.

Hmm! I'm 6'3", and I get in mine ok....?

I have only had it a while, but the Worthing-Durham trip was a breeze: plenty of time for driver-position probs to manifest themselves...!

I suppose CF door trims sans big handle would be good.....?

Before I test drove a Mk3 for the first time, my worry was headroom and legroom.
With the hardtop, I have more headroom than in my Mk1 (sunroof)!

Maybe you have longer legs than me...?

I find legroom "OK"..: could be better, but not a REAL problem.........

[CM1GT]

typically after i posted this i did a search for 2zz mr2s and there was a link to rogues advert for drive in drive out 2zz conversions

this has really got me thinking now, so i've come up with another question, which of these routes would work with the smt mk3? (as im looking for a road car auto would be my choice) i'm sure ive seen someone on here with a turbo'd 1zz smt, i take it not much else would work with the semi auto box

Hello! I've got a mk3 SMT turbo. But it's in pieces after the 1zz went pop (I bought it like this from Rowland on here - a search will show you what it was running).
I wouldn't want to start messing around trying to get any other SMT engine & box in it but I'm sure it's possible (I think the celica with 2zz may have come with SMT option..?).
If SMT is important you're probably better off going turbo 1zz (maybe I'm biased).

hi,
i know the car, was probably the car that got me interested in a turbo smt, was very tempted to have a bid when it was on ebay, hows it looking now?

time now for my 3rd and final question, how does the smt 'box drive? ive had smt's before and full autos and the smt was terrible, basically a manual with an auto clutch which meant hill starts were interesting, is the smt the same or more of an auto with tiptronic mode? and does it have a full auto mode?

[BenF]

typically after i posted this i did a search for 2zz mr2s and there was a link to rogues advert for drive in drive out 2zz conversions

this has really got me thinking now, so i've come up with another question, which of these routes would work with the smt mk3? (as im looking for a road car auto would be my choice) i'm sure ive seen someone on here with a turbo'd 1zz smt, i take it not much else would work with the semi auto box

Hello! I've got a mk3 SMT turbo. But it's in pieces after the 1zz went pop (I bought it like this from Rowland on here - a search will show you what it was running).
I wouldn't want to start messing around trying to get any other SMT engine & box in it but I'm sure it's possible (I think the celica with 2zz may have come with SMT option..?).
If SMT is important you're probably better off going turbo 1zz (maybe I'm biased).

hi,
i know the car, was probably the car that got me interested in a turbo smt, was very tempted to have a bid when it was on ebay, hows it looking now?

time now for my 3rd and final question, how does the smt 'box drive? ive had smt's before and full autos and the smt was terrible, basically a manual with an auto clutch which meant hill starts were interesting, is the smt the same or more of an auto with tiptronic mode? and does it have a full auto mode?

FWIW I got my turbo kit from Martin Holden, who did the first UK SMT conversion. It has to be said though that it was "challenging" getting the SMT working with the turbo properly - he had to remove the recirc valve, but it did work eventually.

The SMT on the Roadster is a hydraulically operated manual gearbox FWIW, not an autobox.

[BenF]

Cheers - yes it's the big silly door handle duberry which is the problem. I'm not massively tall - 6'2" - but obviously just the wrong shape for a mk3.

John - I'm surprised- I'm 6ft 2 as well and don't find any problems with the door handles etc. Yes, they're close but they don't interfere with the way I drive.

[dawolf]

Hmm, interesting to see the amount of options available. I was very tempted by a mk3, it looks nice and handles so well but the major flaw was the severe lack of power. Also a shame the soft-top is not electric. These were the main reasons why I plumped for the S2000. I'd probably save up and transplant the 2ZZ engine. Should make it a fair bit quicker without any other mods.

[Ekona]

Trouble is that by the time you've bought a mk3 and the paid for the 2ZZ swap, you can afford an S2K that's easily as quick in stock form and better equipped. You'd have to really want a mid-engined layout to do that.

[CM1GT]

that just brings up more questions, unless you take a risk with a non runner a mk3 is still going to cost 3-4k, plus another 2-3k to mod it, leaves a built car price of 5-7k, and thats exotic roadster money