N/A mk1 - can it be turbo'd?

[mr2mk1chick]

Have no knowledge of turbo engines (apart from a bit fat turbo sits in the engine bay!), but can a regular engine be convereted? if not - why not? (want to learn)

[ldavies83]

Short answer is Yes! What I've been told is supercharger is more difficult, and takes power (small ) away from engine! Wheras Turbo uses waste exhaust gases, I would say yes if you can get a exhaust manifold to mount a turbo onto!

[waynestoyotamr2]

This is the bit where Lauren comes in and trys to sell her Turbo manifold again!!

[Icsunonove]

Yes Jo you can but you need to lower the compression ratio. You can do this by buying and fitting the pistons from the Supercharged engine (they are not that expensive from Toyota to be honest).

If you use the standard engine and don't change the pistons you can only use a very low boost pressure. This is due to the detonation limits.

Have I bored you enough yet or do you want me to continue..........

[Icsunonove]

This is the bit where Lauren comes in and trys to sell her Turbo manifold again!!

Oh God Wayne, don't tell Jo this, she'll definitely want it. It's all shiny and stainless!

And yes Leigh a Supercharger conversion would be more difficult, far more difficult to be honest....

And one more thing - if you want a turbo engine building I know a man that can

[LimeyMk1]

And I have plenty of sources for other manifolds, injectors (cheap MrT ones) and info!

I was going to have a go at building one myself from an NA but the tuning aspects and hassle was a bit much for me!

[MegatronUK]

The standard n/a lump can be turbocharged, but only at very low boost levels; it'll go bang otherwise. The SC engine is a better base to start from, having stronger internals and is better suited to forced induction.

However, you'll spend quite a bit of money on either conversion, for not a lot of return.. IMO!. If you seriously want more power from the mk1, then the best power per £ has to be from the 3SGTE conversion - it'll not likely cost any more than a 4AGE to 4AGTE conversion, and only slightly more than a standard 4AGZE supercharger conversion.... even as standard the 3SGTE is miles beyond both. To do everything for the conversion has cost me £1900, thats including brand new Koni suspension, new brakes, bushes, exhaust, bigger turbo.. etc etc..

If you want to know more, I'm sure Paul Woods will pop up soon... alternatively, drop by twobrutal.co.uk and have a chat with us mad mk1.5 builders and owners!

[Icsunonove]

And I have plenty of sources for other manifolds, injectors (cheap MrT ones) and info!

Chris you didn't tell me this
Please go on.....

However, you'll spend quite a bit of money on either conversion, for not a lot of return.. IMO!

John it depends on who does it for you. And as for not a lot of return, I don't understand that. I have been informed by a number of people that the 7-rib later block is good for up to 250hp. Well I'm aiming for about 200hp so we'll see what happens.....

To do everything for the conversion has cost me £1900

How on earth did you manage to do it that cheaply. You have done well.

And John, PLEASE tell me you are still coming to the Elvington trackday. Correct me if I'm wrong but no-one has had a Mk1.5 on the track have they? It should go like a rocket, I can't wait to see it.

Tom

[LimeyMk1]

Chris you didn't tell me this

Please go on.....

What do you want to know?

Ideal turbo for a Mk1 is a Garrett T3 trim 60 with an a/r of 0.48 (not the super 60 BTW)

Injectors (440cc are adequate) Toni's got my set but the supplier in the States sells them for $60 each including delivery IIRC.

I know of three suppliers of manifolds, again in the States. One is on 4agte.com, one is Carl Crawford, the other I'd have to dig up. There are plenty of machine shops that'd make one up for you in the UK though.

ECU my choice is the Megasquirt but I'm waiting for new chips for the latest model before I buy one ($300 for a built ECU, $175 DIY)

Pistons, if you're using an SC you can leave the whole block/head/pistons etc intact. If you're using an NA it'll be either SC pistons. Fensport (VVVVpricey) or Arias forged low compresion.

Ther are lots of other little things, fuel pump, do you want an internal $ or external wastegate $$$, recirulating BOV, intercooler pipework (none of which you can buy outright).

HKS did a bolt on kit for the Mk1 and the instruction manual can be found (with lots of other 4AGTE stuff) on the US mr2oc, which IMO is the best place to start.

That's as much as I can remember off the top of my head without getting into cams etc. but those are an optional extra as the 4AGTE works well with standard cams.

Chris

[ribbo]

have you been to the excellent resource that is www.twobrutal.co.uk

not strictly turbocharging the 4-age i know, but they do fiddle a lot on that site

[Icsunonove]

Cheers Chris, you never told me you were thinking of doing this. How's the engine by the way?

[LimeyMk1]

On it's way to the dump! Fresh one fitted and all that's left to do is the exhaust manifold, exhaust and coolant. Absolutely knackered tho, worked over the weekend and every night this week! Body work next week!

[Icsunonove]

Well done Chris, good effort!

[stevenb]

Have no knowledge of turbo engines (apart from a bit fat turbo sits in the engine bay!), but can a regular engine be convereted? if not - why not? (want to learn)

learn all you need to know from the pro's here....
http://twobrutal.co.uk/forum/index.php

[MegatronUK]

However, you'll spend quite a bit of money on either conversion, for not a lot of return.. IMO!

John it depends on who does it for you. And as for not a lot of return, I don't understand that. I have been informed by a number of people that the 7-rib later block is good for up to 250hp. Well I'm aiming for about 200hp so we'll see what happens.....

This is base mainly off the reports I've seen of turbo'd 4AGE's over in the MR2OC forums. With stock internals the one's I've seen seem to be only able to produce around 140-160bhp, peronsally I'd rather have an SC with uprated pulley, than go to the hassle and expense of turbocharging.

To do everything for the conversion has cost me £1900

How on earth did you manage to do it that cheaply. You have done well.

1. Only buy new parts when I absolutely have to
2. With the help of the other TwoBrutal mk1.5 folks finding each other parts etc..
3. Do all the work ourselves.
4. Never buy the first thing I see; after waiting, I eventually found an engine, turbo and lsd box for 450 quid.

And John, PLEASE tell me you are still coming to the Elvington trackday. Correct me if I'm wrong but no-one has had a Mk1.5 on the track have they? It should go like a rocket, I can't wait to see it.
Tom

I'm hoping to. I certainly haven't cancelled or sold my place yet; there is still a lot to do, but hopefully, with fingers crossed, and touching wood, the car should be ready for then.

Deno Plumley in the US has taken his mk1.5 to the NA2005 Auto-X, if you haven't seen the video, then I'd reccomend it (it's on MR2OC.com somewhere). It was seriously fast. Mine isn't tuned quite to the extent that his is, but it should still shift sharper than a standard turbo lump.

[BenF]

You can Turbo a NA engine - that's exactly what I've done with my Roadster, taking it from 138bhp to 220bhp.

What you will need is to be able to add additional fuel, and adjust (retard) the engine timing to compensate for the high compression NA engine.

As a bare minimum, other than the turbo and intake/exhaust manifolds, you'd need a Unichip with Boost sensor module to tune the fuel delivery, but I don't know how much fuel the standard Mk1 injectors can supply. For my Roadster turbo, there is a 5th injector supplying additional fuel as needed.

Starting with a 4A-GZE you should be good for over 200bhp given Lauren got 197bhp with a Superchager.

[feral4mr2]

many people around the world have turbo'd stock 4age's with good results. good intercooling, aftermarket engine management with proper tuning is what you need.
high compression and boost will normally give better fuel economy and higher HP levels when done right.

my current intrim 4agte i run a 7 rib bigport 4age with the stock 9.4:1 casties at 12psi of boost. i did whack in a thicker HG set-up though as i am still useing the 4agze ECU configuration. i've been flogging the absolute crap out of this engine for over 2 years now.

[stevenb]

many people around the world have turbo'd stock 4age's with good results. good intercooling, aftermarket engine management with proper tuning is what you need.
high compression and boost will normally give better fuel economy and higher HP levels when done right.

my current intrim 4agte i run a 7 rib bigport 4age with the stock 9.4:1 casties at 12psi of boost. i did whack in a thicker HG set-up though as i am still useing the 4agze ECU configuration. i've been flogging the absolute crap out of this engine for over 2 years now.

Impressive....I take it that it's pretty reliable then.....

[feral4mr2]

as above been running 12psi for over 2 years now, also did a 13,148km trek across Oz in March just gone and i did not baby it.....

[Icsunonove]

i did whack in a thicker HG set-up

John, had a good laugh at this comment , you didn't tell the whole story! John has put two headgaskets on his engine to lower the compression ratio, I kid you not! And it was only meant to be an interim engine but despite his best efforts to kill it, it simply won't die!

And bear this is mind: A standard 4AGZE (Supercharger engine) produces 8 psi of boost and 145bhp. A 4AGZE with a big pulley produces 12psi and 180bhp. But the supercharger takes huge percentages of engine power and the turbocharger does not! Well John's is producing 12 psi with a really efficient turbocharger and a chargecooler.....

So how much power is John's engine producing? Answer = LOTS!