[Mk2] [Turbo] How can i hit 300 bhp?

[pez]

Hi all,

At present moment everything on my tubby is standard apart from the exhaust (Apexi GT) and Air filter (HKS).

What else do i need to be able to hit 300bhp mark?

I want 300 as i do not want to do internal modification yet and i know this is the limit on a stock tubby.

Thanks
Pez

[tomwoodis]

I reckon you can do it with the following but to be honest whether you hit the magic 300 will depend on the overall health of the engine (im basing this on the rev 3 turbo which you appear to have)

Anyway here goes, oh and this assumes that you have serviced the engine regularly including good oils, new dizzy cap, rotor arms and spark plugs every 5-6k miles. You really must do this to run a reliable 300:

Uprated air filter - Apexi, ARC, HKS any really (people will argue that some are better than others however in reality they make little difference on a car with forced induction)

Better intercooler/chargecooler - if its a chargecooler you are after then the Celica 205CC is a good bet for the money otherwise its a good intyercooler from the likes of Greedy, Berk, Phoenix Power possibly even the XS power one will do although you are likely to have issues fitting it. As a general rule the more you are prepared to pay the better.

Boost controller - This could be a manual one but probably best to use an electronic one when running high end to make sure you have the accuracy. Also you will need an aftermarket boost guage to ensure you are running the correct boost. With this fitted the boost can be raised to 1.2bar with no need for an FCD on the rev 3 car.

Downpipe - get rid of the cat and fit a downpipe. Again there are various on the market all of which perform a similar job.

Better exhaust - get a nice free flowing exhaust with atleast a 2.5" pipe at the smallest part. There are loads to choose from so have a look around. To be honest good second hand units come up on here quite a bit.

To be honest thats about all you need although at 300hp your running close to the limits of the oem clutch so might be worth swapping that out. Also at 300hp you should really be running a grade colder with the spark plugs.

You might also consider a lighter flywheel at this point. Wont necessarily free up much power but worth doing if your doing the clutch.

In summary:

New service parts with service carried out
Uprated air filter
Chargecooler or intercooler changed
Boost controller set to 1.2 bar
Downpipe to replace CAT
Free flowing Exhaust
Colder grade plugs
Possibly a new clutch
Possibly a lighter flywheel


Right let the debate begin

[Ian Geary]

fyi

a 1 grade cooler NGK plug is something with a 7 in the middle, like BKR7E.

Stock is BKR6EP-8.

Also, just in case the previous post doesn't creaet a debate, you didn't specify whether you wanted those 300bhp at the wheels, or at the fly?

300bhp at the wheels is more like 350-370 at the fly....


Personally, unless you've got a pile of cash waiting to be spent, I'd do the mods progressively.

the exhuast and cat I'd do at the same time, but the rest you can do bit by bit.

the biggest bit of work is the intercooler though.

I wouldn't do the clutch until it starts to slip, but one thing I'd add to Tomwoodis's list is checking the brake pads and replacing the brake fluid- this will sharpen the pedal up, and costs abour £3 for basic dot 4 fluid (if you're going on a track, shell out for dot 5.1).

hth

Ian

[mattcambs]

Also, just in case the previous post doesn't creaet a debate, you didn't specify whether you wanted those 300bhp at the wheels, or at the fly?

300bhp at the wheels is more like 350-370 at the fly....

the biggest bit of work is the intercooler though.

I wouldn't do the clutch until it starts to slip, but one thing I'd add to Tomwoodis's list is checking the brake pads and replacing the brake fluid- this will sharpen the pedal up, and costs abour £3 for basic dot 4 fluid (if you're going on a track, shell out for dot 5.1).

hth

Ian

The absolute limit of the stock turbo is about 280bhp at the wheels (~340bhp). This requires a CC, fuel pump and a fully mapped ECU running around 1.3bar and ain't cheap.

My advice is to not chase 300bhp. Tom and Ian have given great advice, which if you follow (including the brakes) will give you a very nice, quick car. Maybe it'll make 300bhp (at the fly-wheel), maybe it won't, but it will be close to this.

Totally agree that the charge cooling is the most important thing to do. I know that 3S do a drive-in, drive-out Celica charge cooler fitment. This will let you safely run 1.2bar.

[gnzyza]

sort of on topic, so what turbo will hit 300 ATW on the above setup without too much lag etc....
say if you run this new turbo at 1.1/2 bar then can you still run stock ecu- is that poss.

[jonny823]

i have a rev1 and have all the mods above and will be fitting my intercooler next week my car was 191whp when last dynoed
what gains whould i see with all these mods on the rev1 i tryed fittin my fcd 2day but got the wrong instructions so if anyone has the wireing diagram for rev1 could they post it up here
im only aiming for 1bar boost due to standard headgasket

[pez]

Thank you all for the advice.

I want 300bhp at wheel.

I do have Apexi GT but now i guess i have to take it off again to fit a down pipe.

p.s. i have de-catted the stock downpipe. Is that good enough or do i need a proper downpipe??

I also have ct20b on my tubby. Is that good enough for 300 at wheel?

[mattcambs]

Thank you all for the advice.

I want 300bhp at wheel.

I do have Apexi GT but now i guess i have to take it off again to fit a down pipe.

p.s. i have de-catted the stock downpipe. Is that good enough or do i need a proper downpipe??

I also have ct20b on my tubby. Is that good enough for 300 at wheel?

The CT20 is NOT up to producing 300wbhp. Fozzy Rev3 made 276wbhp on his and that was with the best charge cooling available (Radtech) and a Link ECU. You will need bigger injectors for 300bhp @ wheels, plus you will also be at the limit of the standard pistons. I'm not trying to p1ss on your bonfire, but you are looking at spending at least £5000 to get 300 at the wheels.

Proper downpipe is ideal, but gutted CAT is probably 80% as good. But seeing as you'll need to swap the turbo, you might as well change it.

300 at the wheels is a great target, but it's one that unfortunately is just that little step further than the usual intake/exhaust/boost increase mods that a lot of people do.

You will need to go beyond the safe limits of the intercooler/turbo/fuel system/pistons to achieve 300wbhp and then you might as well go the whole hog and get a GT30 series turbo and have 400wbhp!

Your previous thread said you had £1000 to spend. Has your budget increased now?

Matt

[tomwoodis]

Totally agree with MATT - Great advice by the way

[xistance]

i cant belive my car is 196 at the flywheel somthing has got to be seriously wrong that means my car is about 120hp at the wheels which my old 106 gti was

[pez]

Well my £1000 budget has not increased but slowley i want to get the car very powerful as i do not use it that often so less tear and wear.

I guess i will be better off getting an engine re-build job with forged internals.

How much willl that cost?

[mattcambs]

Well my £1000 budget has not increased but slowley i want to get the car very powerful as i do not use it that often so less tear and wear.

I guess i will be better off getting an engine re-build job with forged internals.

How much willl that cost?

Couldn't tell you, but as a guess: £1500? Best thing to do is talk to a couple of specialists. Rogue, 3S, Century, etc (see affiliates section) and discuss what your goals are. Then they can advise you the best order to do things so you can SAFELY mod your car bit by bit as funds permit - eventually reaching your goal.

Dude, be prepared to spend BIG time It's called the modding bug.

[pez]

modding bug?!!!

I have had that for ages mate. I stopped for a while but i think i caught it again.

[EarL]

Hope you've got deep pockets Pez...

Here's a good place to start...

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... le&CID=225

EarL.

[Chr15py]

i cant belive my car is 196 at the flywheel somthing has got to be seriously wrong that means my car is about 120hp at the wheels which my old 106 gti was

196 at the fly = broken mr2 turbo. Check your dyno read out and find out what they were measuring. 196bhp is probably about right at the wheels.
Chris

[Chr15py]

Hope you've got deep pockets Pez...

Here's a good place to start...

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... le&CID=225

EarL.

Link doesn't work bud - says "you are not the vehicle owner"
Chris

[EarL]

Hope you've got deep pockets Pez...

Here's a good place to start...

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... le&CID=225

EarL.

Link doesn't work bud - says "you are not the vehicle owner"
Chris

Nice one Chris...

[pez]

My pockets are deep because of the holes in them.

[KrisB]

this is how i made 300 at the wheels

Engine
Greddy td05 18g turbo kit including exhaust manifold and down pipe
ATS Racing external wastegate upgrade
HKS racing intake
Radtec charge cooler
Sard 800 injectors
Arc blow off valve
Apexi power fc
Pheonix power departure exhaust
TRD engine mounts
Greddy oil cooler
Walbro fuel pump

[Chr15py]

Hope you've got deep pockets Pez...

Here's a good place to start...

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/garage.php ... le&CID=225

EarL.

Link doesn't work bud - says "you are not the vehicle owner"
Chris

Nice one Chris...

No joke, I'm being honest
Chris