Sluggish MK1

[jim-mapps]

I have an 89 MK1 T-bar and love it to bits but it seems a little sluggish to me. Various sites claim a 0-60 of not far off 7 or 8 seconds as standard (As mine is).

Are these figures anything like realistic? as mine is more like 11-12 seconds. If so are there any common problems which slow them down? It does run better afetr a long run on the motorway but it's still nowhere near. It's well serviced, it gets new oil and filters every 6 months at the latest and I've chacked everything I can think of with my limited knowledge.

Is it just the fact that this beautiful little beast is getting a bit old? Less than 95k on the clock?

Cheers.

[Alistair]

Maybe the timing is a bit off? Have you had this checked?

I've never timed it precisely, but I'd say that 8 seconds 0-60 is pretty much correct for a standard car (I have the same year and model as you, with about the same mileage ). 11-12 seems very slow. The only other obvious thing I can suggest is driving style. Have you tried dumping the clutch in first gear at 6000rpm?

[Lauren]

I have an 89 MK1 T-bar and love it to bits but it seems a little sluggish to me. Various sites claim a 0-60 of not far off 7 or 8 seconds as standard (As mine is).

Are these figures anything like realistic? as mine is more like 11-12 seconds. If so are there any common problems which slow them down? It does run better afetr a long run on the motorway but it's still nowhere near. It's well serviced, it gets new oil and filters every 6 months at the latest and I've chacked everything I can think of with my limited knowledge.

Is it just the fact that this beautiful little beast is getting a bit old? Less than 95k on the clock?

Cheers.

If its in good running order it won't get slower with age. Like matey said, timing?

I think most 0-60 figures are pulled out of a hat and meaingless tbh. But on the one time i was timed 0-60 in my old t-bar years ago i think i did it in 9.3secs. So anything under ten would be okay. Guess your best bet is to go to a meet and get a ride/drive in another one and compare with your own car.

[Jon Bradley]

You should notice an increase in power above 4500RPM, which is when your T-VIS kicks in. Below this speed the car wont feel all that quick, and if your T-VIS isnt working properly (no idea how likely this is) then i guess it would feel sluggish, but yeah i would def get your timing checked first.

[M_Lud]

I'm not sure if it's likely to be the TVIS simply because the TVIS is such a reliable piece of kit. Engine revs reach a limit, ECU tells the TVIS to open a few valves and some butterflies open up. Not much to go wrong. You should hear and feel a difference in the engine when the TVIS opens up - engine note sounds more meaningful and there should be a noticable 'push'.

Mind you, whipping the air intake off and grabbing a can of carb/throttle body cleaner wouldn't hurt! Start the engine and let it get warm. Open the throttle to about 4krpm and squirt the cleaner directly into the intake, stopping before you kill the revs and stall the engine. Do it a couple of times.

The fact that it runs better when it's nice and hot may point at an ignition problem... if the gaps on the sparks are too large it won't ignite the fuel/air as easily until the engine gets hot and gives it a hand. Before replacing the plugs you might want to regap them and see if that helps! If it does, replace them.

Take off the dizzy and check the terminals and rotor arm for deterioration as well.

l8r,
Jay

[x-pack-man]

Thats easy sorted matey, lob a 3SGTE turbo motor in it

[Lauren]

Thats easy sorted matey, lob a 3SGTE turbo motor in it

Surely a better option would be to put a 3SFE in it and tune that?

[x-pack-man]

no, the FE is un-tunable!!!!

[branny crashed turbo]

gotta say, my 89 tbar is sluggish.

i have owned a 94 3-sge, this car had sod all low end torque, but it loved to rev and got a lot of power high up. (i thought due to acis)

my mk1 has a good amount of "pull" low down, but has absolutely no grunt above 4k.
in fact, i cant really remember the last time i revved it....

i dunno if my t-vis is broke, but im quite happy driving on the low down torque, it'll still beat most hatches...... if there not trying

[Lauren]

gotta say, my 89 tbar is sluggish.

i have owned a 94 3-sge, this car had sod all low end torque, but it loved to rev and got a lot of power high up. (i thought due to acis)

my mk1 has a good amount of "pull" low down, but has absolutely no grunt above 4k.
in fact, i cant really remember the last time i revved it....

i dunno if my t-vis is broke, but im quite happy driving on the low down torque, it'll still beat most hatches...... if there not trying

Its funny you say that. I've got an early MK1 NA (runs a late engine though) and it just loves going round to 7.5K, as soon as the TVIS opens its on a mission.

But, I drove Lee's who has an 86NA too. His just wasn't keen to rev at all over around 4K. In fact it felt like it was being strangled once you got it up to 6K and i never revved it to 7 just because it wasn't keen to get there. I suggested to Lee that his timing may be a touch retarded.

In fact i wonder if this is your problem as retarding the timing a bit will hurt it more at the top end than further down the rev range.

[spudgun]

i'm only throwing this in to the ring as a maybe, but have any of these sluggish cars got aftermarket air filters attached straight to the throttle body?
I know mine was fairly lacklustre until I did the old cold air intake for the air filter, and then it took off like it had never done before.
Just a thought.

[Lauren]

i'm only throwing this in to the ring as a maybe, but have any of these sluggish cars got aftermarket air filters attached straight to the throttle body?
I know mine was fairly lacklustre until I did the old cold air intake for the air filter, and then it took off like it had never done before.
Just a thought.

I must admit i never noticed any difference tbh.

I have a K&N on the throttle body. It isn't going to cost more than say 2bhp or so through hotter air really.

[crazylegs]

jim you dont say where you are but if you are near me feel free to pop over and compare notes. check all the ignition first as said above and let us all know the results. it will be fixable as your engine is just a baby in mk1 terms,but lets eliminate the easy/cheap bits first. you might like to do a compression test just to reassure yourself alls well with the internals.

[System-G]

When I first drove my 85 MKI, it felt very sluggish in comparison to my Corolla GTi.

I was hoping a good service would sort it out nicely, unfortunately all the service showed was a knackered engine Whole other thread.

But saying that even though there are piston/valve problems, after putting the K&N onto the throttle body, performance picked up enough to notice. And you can definately hear the T-VIS working

As the other's have said, get your timing checked and give it a good service (at the same time) - new oils, filters and plugs (and leads & dizzy if needed). if this doesn't cure it, then get a compression test done.

[chiefbrody]

I'd love a go in a different mk1, simply to see what mine is like

iive only had it a month, and only drove it til the end of march (long story) but yeah, I can definately feel when it opens up above 4.5k

to be honest, I keep it revving all the way and its never run out of steam - its me thats backed off because Im not used to seeing much over 6k on my other cars

[jim-mapps]

Right... a fair few to have a look at there... I'll be a very pleased man if my car turns out to be re tuneable. Not one for mods but restoring it back to it's original performance, that's a different story.

Well the T-VIS seems fine because it does liven up around 4500 but not as much as it used to... or as much as the other one I've driven albeit a long time ago. I'm in Leeds if anyone is nearby?

coupla qustions though.

You say check the spark plug gap, what should the gap be? This sounds like a possibility because I don't think I gapped em last time I changed em due to not knowing the correct gap size.

Also, (Might sound like a stupid question), which part of the air intake? before or after the filter? sounds dumb because I aint used to this engine, describe where though.. and I can do it.

Checked the rotor arm etc and it looks old but hard to tell if it's worn, the contacts inside the dizzy however were nastily coroded until I cleand em up (To No Effect).

Cheers guys, tis appreciated.

[Lauren]

Right... a fair few to have a look at there... I'll be a very pleased man if my car turns out to be re tuneable. Not one for mods but restoring it back to it's original performance, that's a different story.

Well the T-VIS seems fine because it does liven up around 4500 but not as much as it used to... or as much as the other one I've driven albeit a long time ago. I'm in Leeds if anyone is nearby?

coupla qustions though.

You say check the spark plug gap, what should the gap be? This sounds like a possibility because I don't think I gapped em last time I changed em due to not knowing the correct gap size.

Also, (Might sound like a stupid question), which part of the air intake? before or after the filter? sounds dumb because I aint used to this engine, describe where though.. and I can do it.

Checked the rotor arm etc and it looks old but hard to tell if it's worn, the contacts inside the dizzy however were nastily coroded until I cleand em up (To No Effect).

Cheers guys, tis appreciated.

Spark plug gap is 1.1mm

[jim-mapps]

Cheers.

[spudgun]

Here's another one to check, I don't suppose the cam timing is out at all?
I remember Paul Saying he had even had em in from a Toyota dealership with one of the cams on tooth out.
There you go , that wil lkeep you busy

[jim-mapps]

OK... Plug gaps are definitely out, can't set em though till I get some feelers at the weekend. One thing I have noticed ias that it sounds a little more Ticky (If that's even a word) at low revs. Mean anything to anyone?

Are these things really comfortable revving right up to 6 or 7k? I know the red line is up at around 7.5k but I really love the car so I haven't really gone near it untill last night when I fed it a little more and found myself in liscence losing territory before I realised! Now it does seem a bit more eager this mornin since I did that, does this suggest dirty injectors and or fuel lines?

Is there a good way to check if the timing belt has been changed? Can't see any Toyota stickers on the cover of mine but it could have been done by somebody else? Just trying to figure how urgent it is as I'm on a tight budget and the windscreen has 2 or 3 too many chips for the MOT man as well .