MK3 + VVTL-I 189bhp

[Stefen]

Is putting the 189bhp VVTL-I engine into the MK3 MR2 the answer to its lack of power?

This is a superb engine with more than 100 bhp/lt. And makes a fantastic roar when the VVTL-I kicks in.

Surely someone must have thought about this? Perhaps it's more or less a straight swop. EDIT: I should mention that the 140bhp engine in the MR2 is the same as the one in the Celica, which has the 189bhp version as an option.

I would even go as far as to say that the performance would be in the league of Rev 1 & 2 turbos...

[Quigonjay]

been done many times over in the states
if you take a look on here
http://spyderchat.com/phpBB2/portal.php
someone sells a converson kit to drop in the 2zz engine

[steve b]

yeah but there are plenty of turbo kits that make them devastatingly fast

[Rogue]

Is putting the 189bhp VVTL-I engine into the MK3 MR2 the answer to its lack of power?

We've got a car due in for exactly this...

EDIT: I should mention that the 140bhp engine in the MR2 is the same as the one in the Celica, which has the 189bhp version as an option.

Guess again! The engine are significantly different - the 1ZZFE is over square and the 2ZZGE is square - although they are packaged similarly. I wonder if the 1ZZ crank could be used to stroke a 2ZZ...

I would even go as far as to say that the performance would be in the league of Rev 1 & 2 turbos...

Power to weight-wise they should give the earlier turbos a good run for their money, and on a circuit should be worrying stock rev3's...

Patrick

[markiii]

Patrick

Are you gettingm teh conversion kit from teh states or having your own made?

be nice to know if a local source exists for these parts.

[Gordy]

The high revving vvt engine, now also used by Lotus, feels gutless at low / mid revs.

[Stefen]

We've got a car due in for exactly this...

Cool.
This will be like a MK3 with the Beams engine. Should be an interesting conversion.

I have been in the 140 and 190 Celicas a fair bit, and was well impressed at how much they pulled in 6th gear at low revs. In fact I was going to buy one at a time.
However I don't get the impression that they have sacrificed the low end torque for the sake of high power figures. But admititly the real power (and buzz) lives in the VVTL-I domain.

[Gordy]

For info.

For a white paper on the Mk3 engine go here:

http://www.spyderchat.com/1zzfe.pdf#sea ... E%20pdf%22

...and for the high reving variant of the engine there is some (Lotus Elise based) information here:

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/t ... oyota.html

[markymarkmr2mk2]

What about a black top beams engine from a altezza?-> 210 bhp
that would make it move!

may not fit though, have never seen the mk3 engine

[Rowland]

may not fit though, have never seen the mk3 engine

It ain't all that...until you add a Turbo !

[BenF]

The 2ZZ swap is a fairly common one. When I was looking for a replacement for my Mk2 turbo, I gave it some serious consideration - a good few people have done it over in the States, plus a few here in the UK.

The 1ZZ and 2ZZ engines are quite different mechanically and form an ECU perspective so getting it all physically installed (new engine mounts are required) and then wired in to the 2ZZ ECU and getting it working with the remainder of the 1ZZ eletrics is a challenge. Eg a common minor problem is that you retain the 1ZZ rev counter - it winds up off the scale with a 2ZZ

I found from an insurance perspective, a 1ZZ -> 2ZZ engine swap would cost as much to insure as a Turbo'd 1ZZ engine. At the time (late '04) there were only a handfull of Turbo'd 1ZZ engines around in the UK - but a few had been used on trackdays and were well sorted.

Given that the 1ZZ and 2ZZ produced roughly the same torque - the 'feel' of them below 6krpms was going to be similar (like with the Mk2 3S-FE Coupe and 3S-GE GT) - you'd have to have the engine wound right up to notice the difference.

Given that I preferred a more flexible engine with more torque, I ended up goign the turbo route - that will quite happily pull sixth gear on the Roadster and make it useable for motorway cruising and overtaking.

Subjectively 220bhp in a Roadster with less weight than my old Mk2 with 280-300bhp 'feels' about as quick - and the power/weight ratios match too.

As the Roadster is lighter, you can really feel the difference around a track. I did some trackday time with it as a Standard NA as well as port Turbo - the extra power does give you some more options for playing around, and also makes the roadster a lot quicker down the straights.

All in all, I'd personally recommend the Turbo route over the 2ZZ conversion - the C2 Power turbo conversion is popular, alternatively if you want to retain a Toyota Warranty you can get the TTE conversion in the UK which gives you around 185bhp

[Rogue]

All in all, I'd personally recommend the Turbo route over the 2ZZ conversion

I guess the difference is, if you're starting with a blown 1ZZFE engine (pre-cat failure) then it makes alot of sense to spend the extra beans and install a 2ZZGE... And don't forget, there are 2ZZ based bolt-on turbo kits!

Are you gettingm the conversion kit from the states or having your own made?

We'll be doing everything in-house. The hardest part at the moment is sourcing donor engines.

Patrick

[Gordy]

We'll be doing everything in-house.

I like seeing stuff like this. Good luck Mr. Rogue.

[BenF]

All in all, I'd personally recommend the Turbo route over the 2ZZ conversion

I guess the difference is, if you're starting with a blown 1ZZFE engine (pre-cat failure) then it makes alot of sense to spend the extra beans and install a 2ZZGE... And don't forget, there are 2ZZ based bolt-on turbo kits!

Good point - if your 1ZZ is already dead, and you need a replacement engine, you might as well go 2ZZ.

As for 2ZZ Turbos - seriously? If I ever kill the 1ZZ engine in mine, I'd be seriously interested.

A Supercharged 2ZZ would be really nice from a lack of lag/ driving purity perspective, but I've heard there are packaging issues using the currently available 2ZZ SC's - the passenger compartment firewall fouls on them.

Are you gettingm the conversion kit from the states or having your own made?
We'll be doing everything in-house. The hardest part at the moment is sourcing donor engines.

Let us know how you get on with this one - a UK tuner with a range of 1ZZ engine conversions and tuning would be really good to see

[Quigonjay]

A Supercharged 2ZZ would be really nice from a lack of lag/ driving purity perspective, but I've heard there are packaging issues using the currently available 2ZZ SC's - the passenger compartment firewall fouls on them.

wonder what set up lotus use?
dont they use the 2zz + sc in the 240bhp elises/exiges?

[afennell]

Interested to see the replies in this thread, regarding the 2zz turbo.

[Rogue]

We're putting together a fairly hardcore 2zz turbo at the moment, with another 2ZZ Supercharged in the pipeline to follow it.

[afennell]

Just realised the dates,

Ben was kind enough to take me round out in his roadster turbo last year on a track day, i was very impressed with the cars handling.
I’m thinking of replacing my rev3 after the summer so thought i would look about how to get decent power out of the mrs. I don’t think a standard car would suffice. What power are you expecting from the 2zz turbo?

[BenF]

We're putting together a fairly hardcore 2zz turbo at the moment, with another 2ZZ Supercharged in the pipeline to follow it.

Well, a 2ZZ SC'd with an intercooler can produce 240bhp in an Exige.

So, with a turbo you 'gain' what you'd loose actually running the supercharger ( say 40-50bhp ) at the expense of a little more lag ..

So are we looking at a 300bhp+ build then Patrick ...?

[Tiny]

Just realised the dates,

New avatar for you