Forging

[davew90]

Hi guys just a quick couple of questions,

The bottom end went on my rev4 tubby last year and only just decided my final plans for the car.

It's getting a full rebuild with the addition of forged pistons and rods.

So my questions is what are the best pistons/rods to buy?

Was looking at Wossner pistons but not sure on what size to go for? And for the rods I was thinking of going for Eagle ones? Are these any good or are there a better option for rods/pistons?

Cheers Dave.

[jasongtr]

i have cp pistons and eagle rods in mine, currently running 400hp - was mapped at around 450hp - im sure there are better / more expensive ones out there, depends on what your ultimate power/torque goals are

[Lee H]

I went with Wossner pistons as all the other aftermarket pistons seemed to raise the compression ratio and I wanted to keep a standard headgasket rathe than altering the compression ratio that way.

I kept the rods standard as quite a few people have ran big power on them with very few issues.

[ashley]

You won't go wrong with CP, Wossner or Wiseco pistons- you need to shop based on what compression ratio you are after, and that means you'll probably end up with CP or Wossner- both excellent makes of piston.

For rods it depends on what kind of level of assurance and performance you are after, and it is not all about power levels- how hard you plan to rev you engine plays a key part in how strong you want to go. The stock rods are forged, and people make really good power with them- but by design they are not the strongest solution. Eagle rods are a fantastic budget option, they don't cost the earth and are plenty strong enough (you will be told by other members on here that they are cheap and nasty Chinese tat, but you only need to look at some of the after market tuners that use them, and the results they get, to see that they are by no means poor quality).
Then you have the higher end rods made by the likes of Carrillo, etc. Much more expensive, but you pay for what you get.

If you aren't in a huge rush I have a set of Eagle rods for sale in the next few weeks (as soon as Peter strips them out of my engine), they've covered less than 5,000 miles and have not rev'd past 7k rpm. I'm sure Peter would be happy to inspect them for you, and you can have them for a decent price if you are prepared to wait

[ashley]

Oh- and as for what size pistons you need- that is determined by your block: are your cylinder walls ok, or do they need a rebore? If you rebore you will need oversize pistons- the stock size is 86mm. Aim to keep to as small a bore as you can on a 3S engine to help preserve the strength in the cylinder walls.

Once you know what your bore size is, you will then need to take the pistons and block back for a final bore and hone where the machine shop will measure your piston diameter and bore the block to the level of clearance you tell them you want.

HTH

[synXero]

How much, ball park, did forged pistons cost you?

If I ever did follow the Rotrex route I had planned I'd need forged pistons.

[bobhatton]

A set of stock forged pistons are around £450-£500, my custom set designed to take 300 hp each were £1300.

The engine has to be designed before buying any parts, please do not just get a box parts and expect them all to work together

[ashley]

How much, ball park, did forged pistons cost you?

If I ever did follow the Rotrex route I had planned I'd need forged pistons.

Just look on ebay for 3SGTE pistons, I bought mine from the US, from memory I think they were from poorboyparts or something similar.

However....for the Beams engine you need special pistons, custom pocketed crowns to avoid valve to piston issues, not sure you can buy off the shelf forged pistons for the Beams engine but I haven't looked too hard (yet)

[juliankv73]

How much, ball park, did forged pistons cost you?

If I ever did follow the Rotrex route I had planned I'd need forged pistons.

From memory didn't Rogue forge a beams engine?

Maybe worth you calling Rogue and chatting to Patrick about forging your beams and they could advise you on the aftermarket ECU requirements as well

[ashley]

I thought they ran low boost on a stock block

I'd be interested if they did forge it- the main reason I didn't go with a Beams head on my 5S rebuild was the lack of available pistons (that and sourcing a good head).

[juliankv73]

Hi

I remembered reading a bit about it a long time ago but could only find these links to it now

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 946&type=3

http://www.ozcelica.com/forum/index.php ... sge-beams/


Hope that helps lol

[ashley]

[Protok]

CP do pistons off the shelf for the beams engine.

They will do any compression for you but there is a guy who has off the shelf 7:1 which is ridiculously low in my opinion.

[Shmed]

I have CP and Eagle, replaced all bearing with ACL race bearings. Bought most of mine from street performance in the States, did a good deal. Mine are all off the shelf and seem to be working ok at 400hp @1,2 bar. I had to bore the engine to 86.5 as they'd worn past 86mm tolerances, I know TB censored can get 86.25mm CP's if you're worried about 0.25mm.

As mentioned earlier, budget palys a part in what is best. Best is ecpensive, best you can afford is different Eagle's seem fine IMHO

[bobhatton]

CP do pistons off the shelf for the beams engine.

They will do any compression for you but there is a guy who has off the shelf 7:1 which is ridiculously low in my opinion.

7:1 is right for 2, 2.5 bar boost.
You only lose 3% power max going down from say 8.0:1 to 7.0:1 and is the correct thing to do, that way the timing can stay where it was designed to be.

[davew90]

What sort of spec do you have for 400bhp? As that's what I would like to reach.

[Mr Bognor]

This is something I would like to know as well

Alan

[Shmed]

In a nutshell I used (and I'm sure many will tell you that you don't need all of this, but I'm just telling you what I did):

forged bottom end
264 cams
rev 3 head
800cc injectors
uprated fuel pump (and uprate wiring to this as that is what stopped my mapping session at 400hp and 1.2 bar)
standalone ecu
better clutch (not required to make 400hp, but probably a good idea to use 400hp)
chargecooler
GT3076r turbo
External wastegate
dump valve
big intake
exhaust

I also updated ALL of my suspension, ARBs, strut bars, drop links, track rod ends and also refurbed my brakes....

I'm also breaking that car, so if you need bits

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... 85#1528085

[davew90]

Cheers bud. Are the 264 cams needed to make this sort of power? Also will the smic be suffice for cooling at this sort of power aswell or do you need to ideally jump to a chargecooler?

[samgpr50]

Hi

I remembered reading a bit about it a long time ago but could only find these links to it now




Hope that helps lol

Just out of interest have you heard of Rogue doing more than one of these builds? I only ask as the first set of pictures are of my brothers car and the second link isn't him (he was the one that bought the engine and has not sold the car)