Front Suspension Modifications ?

[elbon50]

Has anyone tried to shorten standard roadsprings by cutting them down ?

Have a spare "pair" of dubious origin & different uncompressed length

Am toying with the idea of trying to chop them down to equal length in an attempt to lower the front of the car by say 25 mil

Peter

[PW@Woodsport]

Just buy some proper lowering springs, cutting springs down is just nasty.

[IanClements]

I have Eibach springs with koni shocks which are 25mm down and they sometimes bottom out so cutting standard springs that much will give problems.

If your shocks are stiffer than OEM you could probably get away with cutting a bit off, maybe 10mm or something but it's taking a risk.

[elbon50]

Thanks for that Ian

The pic that Ian Mulhall (Mulaz) put up shows one of his lowered springs which has 7 coils, as opposed to my 5 coil standard ones. Don't knnow the thickness of the steel but it looks to be greater than mine (which are 11 mill). Thus the lowered springs are presumably also uprated

My softer, standard springs would bottom out more easily when shortened I think ?

Are you suggesting taking 10 mill off the end of the steel or or reducing the uncompressed height of the spring by 10 mill please ?

Peter

[IanClements]

Are you suggesting taking 10 mill off the end of the steel or or reducing the compressed height of the spring by 10 mill please ?

Never done it myself so have to say that it's just an idea. The theory is that if Toyota thought the original springs needed to be a certain height (and they may have played safe) then if you have fitted stiffer shocks then that height could be reduced accordingly as there will be less travel over bumps.

[PW@Woodsport]

Sorry but in my opinion cutting springs down is as bodgey as it gets, if you remove the flatter coil at the top or bottom the spring won't seat properly and may have a risk of it popping out of the spring pan, maybe ripping into your tyre, not to mention the MOT implications....do the job properly chaps.

[elbon50]

Wouldn't dream of interfering with the top of he spring Paul, precisely for the reason you outline above

The finished job would look exactly like standard. It would however be a little shorter & have a shiny bottom tip

The trick would be to get the finished length just right. Not make them too short so that the suspension bottoms out

I like to experiment

Peter

PS If I go ahead with this it will be on the understanding that it is at my own risk & carried out entirely without Club endorsement or approval

[MartG]

I've heard that some of the Mk1s competing in the MR2 Championship used cut down springs - not sure how much they took off though, or what the ( uprated ) springs they used were

[Jim-SR]

25-30mm is pretty much the standard drop of the majority of lowering springs for the AW11. So for the sake of being cheap you're better off doing it properly and buying some springs intended for the purpose. The stock springs are too soft, so even though removing a coil will stiffen them up slightly, they will still probably be softer than aftermarket options, and you'll bottom out everywhere.

[elbon50]

Not thinking about doing this for cheapness really

More because I have a couple of springs going spare & I like to experiment

Very interesting to read everybody's ideas

[Boddney]

My next door neighbour did this wuth his Focus and the spring jumped off the carrier as he backed off the drive and it went straight through the tyre wall. Thank god it did it on the drive and not on the road.
No matter how hard we tried it would'nt go back on the carrier because the bottom coil is'nt flat. God knows how he managed to get them to seat the first time.
NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!!!!

[PW@Woodsport]

My opinion remains the same i'm afraid, do the job properly or not at all, don't risk your life cutting down springs, there have been many horror stories with people doing this, it just isn't worth it.

[un1eash]

Reading your first post also it sounds like the springs u plan to chop don't even come from an mr2 and are different lengths? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

[elbon50]

The springs do indeed come from an MR2 un1eash. Length varies slightly as things stand at present

Thanks for your concern for my health & welfare chaps

All comments taken onboard

The final decision is of course my own

Peter

[Clarky_X]

Reading your first post also it sounds like the springs u plan to chop don't even come from an mr2 and are different lengths? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

While the decision is your own, bear in mind that if they are different lengths they could be different rates too, if you don't fully know the origin you won't know unless you get the rates tested. I don't know much about suspension except what I've read in the last few days, but I definitely wouldn't take any risks, especially if they don't match side to side. You would end up with drastically different handling when cornering, less dive on one side than the other.

In fact, thinking about that, if they are different rates, when you brake and the car dives more one side than the other, you'll end up in a spin and backwards into a hedge or school crossing.

Just don't do it.

[jnoiles]

I've heard that some of the Mk1s competing in the MR2 Championship used cut down springs - not sure how much they took off though, or what the ( uprated ) springs they used were

They definitely do this. Mostly they're using Apex springs which are harder rate to begin with. When the chopped springs are on the car the distance from cup to cup on the susepnsion is 10cm at the front and anout 15cm at the rear so it's a bit drastic for road car use.

If you went down this route you'd need to secure the springs somehow (wire, jubilee, etc) so they couldn't pop out. From the factory the springs have a nice flat shape at the ends to sit properly in the cups. You'd be chopping that off and that would be an instant MOT fail if you didn't then secure them in place.

Also remember that the race cars are more focussed than a general road car so what applies there might not be so good on the road.

I'd be curious to see what your results are like on standard springs though. For what it's worth I'm running KYB inserts and fensport lowering springs on my mr2 race car and its ok but a bit soft. During the off season this year I'll be fitting BC coilovers and chunkier arb's in the pursuit of better handling.

[elbon50]

My car is used almost exclusively for trackdays, sprints & hillclimbs. Very rarely on the road these days except to drive to events. It has MOT till next Feb, after which I may withdraw it from road use altogether. Have towcar & transporter

Any modifications are always very carefully thought through and applied with skill & care

If some of the ideas that I suggest seem a bit ill advised you don't need to worry

[Jim-SR]

I don't understand race cars running cut springs. I can get custom springs made to any fitment and rate, so they could just get a spring made up that does the desired job. It doesn't cost as much as people might expect either. There really isn't any justifiable reason for cutting springs, except for being too much of a cheapskate to do the job properly (and safely)!!

[jnoiles]

I don't understand race cars running cut springs.

Because it costs nothing to do.

I can get custom springs made to any fitment and rate, so they could just get a spring made up that does the desired job. It doesn't cost as much as people might expect either.

Some have. It's £200 a set. That's £200 a set more expensive than cutting the springs on the car already.

Most club race cars are a work in progress and they evolve as driver skills get better and budget allows. Quite often you're fixing damage or sorting a dead gearbox or whatever, instead of spending money on custom components. So you roll on less than ideal springs. At some point you realise you have an angle grinder and you can improve things a bit until you get around to properly measuring up the geometry, feeding it into susprog and then working out where you need to spend your money to get it perfect.

There really isn't any justifiable reason for cutting springs, except for being too much of a cheapskate to do the job properly (and safely)!!

See above for 200 reasons.

So far, to my knowledge, a cut spring hasn't been the cause of any accident across a couple of mr2 race series over half a decade. And a quick youtube will demonstrate that we're not being delicate with them.

I'm not for a second saying its an ideal solution. I'm just saying that it's possible and I understand the reasons people do it.

Having said all that, if you know a decent spring maker and he's looking for a race car to sponsor I'm more than happy to wear his uber special mk1 mr2 race springs and plaster the car with his stickers

[Jim-SR]

Budget is always the reason. It does beg the question of where else corners get cut though. £200 saved on cutting springs, a component which, if it failed on say the entry to Paddock Hill Bend at Brands Hatch, could result in death for the driver, other drivers, spectators, etc. Hell, an MR2 cleared the catch fence in a "racing incident" there the other week, without throwing component failures into the mix.

For me, the old "people have done it for years, and competed in 10,000,000,000 races without a problem, so why not?" argument doesn't float. Carroll Smith used to quote "Murphy's Law" over and over again in his books, and it always springs to mind when I'm even contemplating bodging something - "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. And will do so at the worst possible moment". Along with "do it right or do it twice".

For all the times that bodged springs have worked, it only takes that one occasion when one goes wrong, and somebody (potentially multiple people) could die. It's racing, I never understand how people can justify doing something to a track/race car that they probably wouldn't deem safe on a road car. As if crashing a race car is acceptable because it's got a roll cage and you're wearing a lid.

My personal opinions aren't going to suddenly change the mindset of those that are intent on saving themselves money. So I'm not going to argue about it, just wanted to make my point. In the MR2 racing series' where regulations prohibit simply running proper race coilover units, suspension is about the only area with any performance freedom at all. Dampers have to be standard fitment inserts, so that means Koni's all day long unless you've got proper money to get custom stuff made. Poly bushes are all about the same, everyone will be running the same components near enough. Which leaves springs as about the only variable where one competitor can cheaply and easily get a clear advantage over the others. Cutting stock springs will never be anywhere near ideal, so if you're buying lowering springs in the first place and then cutting them it would barely even cost more to get custom stuff to begin with if you can get them for £200 a set!!