Owning a track car

Posts about trackdays and motorsport.

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Lauren
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Lauren »

Rhys- wrote:So I could insure it 3rd party with limited milage to get it to/from events? Would mean that only I could drive it there/back but that's no big deal really. And obviously it would have to be taxed. But for track use we don't have to have it insured as if we crashed it then we'd scrap it. Is that right?

Does having a 2nd car affect a policy you already have in place? As I currently have one for my Mk2 and don't want that to go up.

Cheers guys


Yep thats it. Make sure you have AA cover in case you suffer a mechanical malady etc.

Insurance for your trackcar will simply be independent of your other car.
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Lauren
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Lauren »

Dave Goodhand wrote:I don't know, if you insure it under the same people then its doubtful.

I think you can only have NCB applied to 1 car though. You can get some good deals on insurance for limited mileage cover, so just phone around - some specialists though - find them in Autosport or similar mags.

As if you get it on say 6k a year - you'll still be able to use it on the weekends and such - unless you trailor it to events - in which case it wont need to be insured at all.

As for trailoring it, I would advice this, as it allows you to bring a certain amount of tools and spares. As we know things do go wrong! As say you'll be able to bring a spare set of slicks/wets (if you have them) various tools, brake pads, oil, filters, fuel etc. It all adds up, even Go-Karting we needed a van to fit the kart in and all the various spares filled it right up!

If its going to be used on the road though - ie driven to the tracks, then yes it will need tax, MOT and insurance. If its trailored then I guess it'd just need a MOT.

Track day insurance (unless its your main car, or a valuable one - ie single seater, historic car etc) is a waste of time to be honest, as in theory - you shouldn't crash into anyone else, you'll just be involved in your own accidents usually - as no-one is racing. And it may even be the unwritten rule of the race track that you pay for your own damage to your own car. As when you are at the track you're covered for 3rd parties etc. Say you crash and parts of your car hit a spectator, the track will be covered for this, and I don't think the spectator can claim off you for it being your fault - as they should've read the signs.


Something i should point out here is that you are not allowed slicks without a cage for obvious reasons. They'd be a waste of time on a MK1 NA anyways as everywhere would be flat out for a start and where's the fun in that?

Also extra wear and tear on suspension plus possible oil surge problems make it not worth it IMO. Just use cheap predictable road tyres its definately the most fun that way. And at the end of the day you are there not to set lap records or win a race, you are there purely to have fun and be entertained.
Rhys-

Re: Owning a track car

Post by Rhys- »

Hiya

Thanks for all the info Lauren. I'm going to talk to the gang today about useing it on trackdays and limiting us to 2 drivers and the rest as spectators/repair team. We've got loads to go to by the looks of it so everyone will get their fair share.

Seems the best way to get the car there is to tax it and insure it. I'm hoping Sarah at Dorset can sort me something out as I've got my current insurance with them, should know by today.

I've got some trackday experience so I do know the limits of my (current) car. All 5 of us are sensible chaps and I know they won't push the car beyond it's limits.

Out of interest, this car you are scrapping. What is it? As we may be interested if this other one falls through.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the info. You've certainly helped us make up our minds.

Oh one last thing. Approx how much does it cost (and where can I get it done) for a roll cage to be added to the car? That's one of the things I'd want done professionaly rather than doing ourselves.

Thanks
Dave Goodhand

Re: Owning a track car

Post by Dave Goodhand »

Demon Tweeks will fit and supply a cage. They do an FIA approved cage, roughly £500 odd, but best to give them a call.

Good to see you're going to go ahead with it!

The cage will definately stiffen up the chassis and make the handling much more responsive in the dry, you may find you need adjustable dampers so that when it rains you can soften everything up. Another thing to look at (if your serious) is a pedal box - this way you can have an adjustable brake bias, but all these things are a bit overkill unless you're really into the racing side! lol
Rhys-

Re: Owning a track car

Post by Rhys- »

Wow, that is a lot of dough! (in comparison to the car)

Still, it's probably still worth doing once we've got the car to a good condition and had a few track sessions.

What suspension setup do people recommend then? This Fensport/Koni combo sounds good. What kind of price can we expect to pay?

Adios

Rhys
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by BenF »

Rhys- wrote:Wow, that is a lot of dough! (in comparison to the car)



Rhys,

you've got to ask yourself first - what's your budget?

I've kept my Mk1 with standard suspension, interior as its not an out and out racer - just a trackday toy.

It probably would benefit from having a new set of Koni adjustables fitted, but IMO the current old (and probably a little tired) shocks and springs are fine.
Rhys-

Re: Owning a track car

Post by Rhys- »

Ben - That's the thing, we plan to just keep it running as tip-top as we can for track use. There will be no road use of the car so we can strip out all the little bits we don't need. Heck we could probably pay for some of the cars repairs with what we take out. Or at least put some cash towards it.

As I say, I think it's going to be best for us to first of all get some track experience in the car. From there we can plan more work as it's needed.

Out of interest Ben where do you live, anywhere near Essex?

Cya
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Speedy »

It probably would benefit from having a new set of Koni adjustables fitted, but IMO the current old (and probably a little tired) shocks and springs are fine.


Ours is pretty tired, there were some amusing pics of it pretty much on the doorhandles through Radar :)
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Lauren
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Lauren »

Rhys- wrote:Hiya

Thanks for all the info Lauren. I'm going to talk to the gang today about useing it on trackdays and limiting us to 2 drivers and the rest as spectators/repair team. We've got loads to go to by the looks of it so everyone will get their fair share.

Seems the best way to get the car there is to tax it and insure it. I'm hoping Sarah at Dorset can sort me something out as I've got my current insurance with them, should know by today.

I've got some trackday experience so I do know the limits of my (current) car. All 5 of us are sensible chaps and I know they won't push the car beyond it's limits.

Out of interest, this car you are scrapping. What is it? As we may be interested if this other one falls through.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the info. You've certainly helped us make up our minds.

Oh one last thing. Approx how much does it cost (and where can I get it done) for a roll cage to be added to the car? That's one of the things I'd want done professionaly rather than doing ourselves.

Thanks


No probs,

The car i'm scrapping is my 88SC. You are welcome to it, but its very rusty bodywise and will have no engine, box, suspension so its just a shell really.

Safety devices would be your best bet for a rollcage cost is £400ish. I approached 'Caged' for a price a few months back and they wanted £895 for a bespoke one.

You don't need a rollcage for trackdays though. I do agree that it tightens the handling up as you can feel the difference (MK1 i raced last year obviously had a cage), though without a cage the car still handles well enough in all honesty.

I would really think about sinking any investment into suspension for trackays. My new occasional trackcar will run this spec:

Engine:
custom exhaust (came with car)
K&N on throttle body (not efficient but sounds fab)

Suspenders:

Koni
Fensport 20% 30mm lower springs (go for 30% for track only car)

Polybushes throughout

If you haven't already bought or got a car then go for a pre-revision one as IMHO they handle better and suffer less understeer. They also tend to be a bit lighter too.

Also run TRD settings on the Geo:

1deg neg camber front
1.5 deg neg camber rear

1.6mm toe in ft
3.2mm toe in rear

use A539s all round on stock rim sizes. These tyres are cheap not too grippy (ie they allow the car to move around) but have that essential ingredient in that they are nice and progressive.

Don't be fooled into buying a TDF (Taiwanese Ditch Finders) just because they are the cheapest tyre as progressiveness is all and will make an impact on how controllable the car is.

HTH

Lauren
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by anna »

What do you mean only one of you is covered to drive with a trailer? Anyone can do it though there are some limitations with those that passed their test after 97 weightwise, but an MR2 wouldn't be too heavy anyway.


Right.... here is the condensed version of the fun and exciting trailing rules!!! YEY!! (ohhh the bitter experience)

If you passed your test after Jan '97 then you are pretty limited on towing, although you could still get around it.
Basically, for normal cars (i.e. having no more than 8 seats so this does exclude certain people carriers) you are allowed to tow a trailer with a laden trailer weight of 750kg (this is no good for your purposes as the MR2 will weight about 1200kg without even thinking about the trailer weight), OR you can tow a combined vehicle and trailer weight of 3500kg (3.5 tonnes) as long as the laden trailer weight is less than 80% of the unladen towing vehicle weight.
For vehicles with more than 8 seats (e.g. a minibus) then you are only allowed 750kg.

This means that if you have a post '97 licence, you will only be able to tow your MR2 to a track day if you have a passenger car (no more than 8 seats) that weighs between 1.5 tonnes unladen (MR2 weight = 1200kg, so to not exceed the 80% rule, the towing vehicle has to be 1200/80*100 = 1500) and 2.3 tonnes (3.5 tonnes combined weight rule) assuming you do not load anything else.

If you have a pre '97 licence, you have much more flexibility on the combined weight and can tow minibuses etc with trailers over 750kg.

So you will need something bigger than your average Ford Focus to tow, but not as big as the new Land Rover Disco 3 ;).

That's if you want to tow of course ;)

(and breathe out...)
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by anna »

Wow, that is a lot of dough! (in comparison to the car)

Still, it's probably still worth doing once we've got the car to a good condition and had a few track sessions.


As Ben says, you have to think about what you want the car for, and what your budget is.

As Speedy has already said, we have a Mk1 that is currently only required for track use. Because of the licence nonsence, and having no where to store a trailer, we have gone the mot, tax and insure route (classic cover for 2nd car (other policy on my everyday car completely unaffected) from Houghton Insurance who do discount for Mk1 MR2 drivers club members). Our car is stock with the original suspension etc - the only mods have been to get the mechanical stuff through the MOT, so ofcourse the handling is not as good through the corners as a stiffened up version.

Having said that, I am not planning to do anything to the car at the moment because the car handles well enough for its speed around tracks, and to be fair, I have only just started track driving, so it's more about developing my skills as a driver rather than worrying too much about how good the car is, or worrying about getting overtaken by cars that have had lots of money spent on them...

If you are all just starting out on track driving, i'd say give stock a go first and then when you develope your driving enough, you'll perhaps want to make the handling better - or even get a car that's more powerful :shock:
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Speedy »

so ofcourse the handling is not as good through the corners as a stiffened up version.


Thats a bit of an understatement - although, with RE720s it can more than hold its own against a A539 shod car (esp. in the wet) - Anna gave MattJ a good run for his money at Donny, until our brakes started giving out...

Just be careful when you're running up against the limit, they aren't anywhere near as progressive as A539s...
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Lauren
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Lauren »

Dave Goodhand wrote:Demon Tweeks will fit and supply a cage. They do an FIA approved cage, roughly £500 odd, but best to give them a call.

Good to see you're going to go ahead with it!

The cage will definately stiffen up the chassis and make the handling much more responsive in the dry, you may find you need adjustable dampers so that when it rains you can soften everything up. Another thing to look at (if your serious) is a pedal box - this way you can have an adjustable brake bias, but all these things are a bit overkill unless you're really into the racing side! lol


Dave, I think all these things are a lot of overkill. He wants to do trackdays so there really is no need for adjustable pedal boxes or a rollcage tbh.
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Lauren »

Speedy wrote:
so ofcourse the handling is not as good through the corners as a stiffened up version.


Thats a bit of an understatement - although, with RE720s it can more than hold its own against a A539 shod car (esp. in the wet) - Anna gave MattJ a good run for his money at Donny, until our brakes started giving out...

Just be careful when you're running up against the limit, they aren't anywhere near as progressive as A539s...


Hi Alex (and Anna), This was my reason for recommending the A539s as for me progression wins over over outright grip everytime. You were in my car with the Advan Neovas , - those tyres asre about as progressive as you can get (not available in 14" though).
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by Speedy »

I'd have to agree that 539s look like a lot of fun, but atm on wet grimy roads, I'd take the 720 every time :D

Will have to get another set of wheels with 539s on for trackdaying.
Dave Goodhand

Re: Owning a track car

Post by Dave Goodhand »

Dave, I think all these things are a lot of overkill. He wants to do trackdays so there really is no need for adjustable pedal boxes or a rollcage tbh.


He did ask about roll cages though - so I answered his Q, as he was looking into that, I thought I'd add what I'd do to properly convert a car! I don't expect anyone in their right mind to put adjustable brake bias on a car that they'll only use for a few events a year!
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by anna »

Hey talking about roll cages, why not make your own ala Scrappy races (Ch4 on last night) :lol:

All you need is some stuff that looks like scaffolding, a big pipe bending machine and welding...
Dave Goodhand

Re: Owning a track car

Post by Dave Goodhand »

And a knowledge of how to build it strong enough to take a sufficient impact.

I know that I wouldn't trust a roll cage that I built! It'd probably be more useful to crush me rather than saving me! lol
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Re: Owning a track car

Post by cantfindausername »

I'm looking at trackin my Mk2 tubby. Hopefully gonna strip it out over the next few months, sort out some bits and pieces. Its become to expensive to run on the road daily so for the price of a set of rear tyres I bought myself a little run around. :lol:
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